Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything

SantaMonica

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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Green Water.. ATS adds Gelbstoff to your tank which CANNOT be removed by skimming. OLD SCHOOL

Good try. Try following directions: Yellowing is removed with carbon, not skimming. Besides, not a single user of the current batch of scrubbers has reported yellowing.

A GFO Reactor & Refugium is the other

Oh yes, that's such a low cost option which requires little space. The GFO does wonders for your N too.

can any of you running this contraption post pre and post perameters...I want here the success stories

Check back a few pages.
 

SantaMonica

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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Keifer1122 was having trouble posting pics, so I did it for him. He can explain what there are:

User4.jpg


User2.jpg


User1.jpg


User3.jpg
 

SantaMonica

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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Results of the day:

jski711 on the RF site says: "Well i ditched my euro reef skimmer and have not noticed any side effects from doing so. i'm still doing water changes on a regular basis but i have increased feedings tremendously and have no adverse side effects from doing so."

keithqueef on RC says: "Update. Well i received my screen from inland (12x12) last friday. and since putting it into my system my trates have gone from red to orange to now dark yellow not quite orange, i lost my color card so i dunno numbers. the screen is dense with it."
 

SantaMonica

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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

keifer:

Ok your pics are up. I'll answer all your posts together here, slightly edited:

its a 75g with 29gal tank for sump. i picked up the big daddy cfl 65 watt/300 watt comparable 3,900 lumens. and i only have about 35lbs of live rock maybe. thats pushin it. 2" sandbed, run an undersized skimmer, i think euro reef usa made for 55g. screen is 12x12 inland aquatics [pre-grown]

Ok first thing I see from your pics and description is that yours is about a 100g system (heavily loaded like you said), with little help from the skimmer, and very little help from LR. Rule of thumb: 1 square inch screen, lit both sides, for each gallon. Since your screen is one sided, you'd need 200 inches. You bought 12 X 12 from IA, which is only 144 sq in. So it's undersized. Not all is lost yet, however :)

my nitrates are up its only been 2 weeks and it looks like there at a stand still but im feeding heavily

You might have had some die-off of the screen after you received it. But if N is stable now, it should not be a problem.

also where the light is the brightest theres a certain type of algae that looks like an oil spill its go a rainbow of colors yellowish greenish brown

Yes that shows how important a powerful light is, that is close to the screen. The oil spill look is when it's pulling out massive amounts of nutrients. My LFS test did that the first time too.

also no yellowing in my water; ive noticed its like a bag of carbon... u just dont put it in; u rinse first. just clean ur scrubber, rinse until theres no more yellow dripping of it

Good to hear.

i run a skimmer just cause my numbers r up there but when there down to nuthing then ill remove

Probably will take a month or so to get the numbers down in your situation.

so i cleaned yesterday to the point where everything was off, except for the red turf that didnt come off

Good; that's how you do it: Clean off everying (in your weekly cleaning) that grows on top of the real turf. Then you can scrape the real turf with a razor blade once a month or so.

[yesterday] the screen was bare, and today the screen is covered. been in for 2 weeks; not much growth the first week. but adjusted to my tank and now my first week cleaning was about the same growth that grew (lol) in one day. yesterday from today.

I think that's from the bigger CFL light. It's now pulling out serious stuff. That's the power of a pre-grown screen... starts up at full power.

i test with api nitrate test and i lost color chart but yellow good red bad im orange and since ive been testing it looks like its getting a lighter color. [N] was usually just goin up everyday, but with the new light i think that will speed up the growing process

Ok good that it's coming down now. That big 65W CFL will make a huge difference.

yea the 65 watt one is the biggest they sell at home depot but i have seen them online bigger 200watt comparable/to a 800watt. but i have no room there. mine is still a spiral shape and its almost the length of 12x12 screen

That light is the single best thing you could have done. Ok, now for some things to look at to get better performance:

o Get Salifert N and P kits, so we can measure using the same tests.

o Put some kind of a reflector behind the light, or get one of those clip-on-light circular reflectors. As it is now, you are losing half your light into that back wall.

o Put another light on the other side. This will fix the problem of the screen being too small: 144 inches is fine if lit on both sides. It will just take a few weeks to catch up with the pre-grown side (and this is exactly what I did, and now both sides are covered in turf.)

o Measure the flow: see how many seconds it takes to fill up a one gallon jug. At 12" wide, you should have up to 420 gph flowing.

o Dose iron, like Kent's Iron, per the instructions on the bottle.

o Since your setup is new, you might clean it once a day for a while until the oil-spill stuff becomes less. You don't want it smothering your real turf, which needs light and flow to live. Later, the oil stuff will go away as the nutrients come down.

o What is feeding the pipe?... a pump or overflow?
 

Keifer1122

New Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

yea i have a the other side lit up but i think i did have some die off cause it turned from brown screen to a serious like slimy oily muccy just like at the lfs pics that u put up with the new light the wjole screen is like that now not just where the light is closest so basically it has unlimited nutrients. i cleaned monday and today is friday and i have to clean again cause of the water shooting also my pump is on the money its a rio 420gph. the other side is getting there still needs to catch up tho i had alot of die off i think when i took the screen out from IA it was like the whole mat fell off but the red turf stayed so its getting used to the system now. ill be back gotta go clean it
 

SantaMonica

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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

No the dark oily stuff is not die-off... it's just a type of algae that you get when you have tons of nutrients. Also, another reason the screen fills up so fast is that it's too small, like I said above. So until the other side catches us, or until the nutrients come down some, keep up with the daily cleaning. Just think of all the N and P that it takes to make all that dark oily slime :) Also get some Salifert kits. Can you email me a pic of both lights operating? Also, the 420gph... how many feet high does that have to pump?

Since you are using a pump, consider getting a wavemaker timer for it, and set it at 30 seconds ON, and 30 seconds OFF. This will simulate the waves that IA had on it when they were growing it, and will make more real turf grow, and less other types.

Lastly, you have the lights on a timer, right?
 

Keifer1122

New Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

nolights on a timer runnin it for 24/7 the pump only has to go about as tall as the tank itself so like 18 inches up and yes its on a timer 30 on 30 off its just that the screen fro IA was one sided and thats why the other side has to catch up
 
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

still waiting for a pic of a beautiful SPS dominated tank that ditched their skimmer and is running an ATS only..

Good skimmer/Vodka Dosing beats this method at removing Nitrates/Phosphates..

ATS's have been blamed for inhibiting growth of SPS..

Quote from Bob Fenner

Am familiar with algal turf scrubbers, commercially and from a science/history point of view.... Saw some of the early work of (all places) the necropolis of Natural History Museums, the Smithsonian... through their development in the seventies, install of the dismal (yes, a failure IMO... many, many dead, dying organisms...) "main tank" in 1981... Am not a big fan of these systems commercially... they partially work to drive the mechanisms of filtration in the claims... but many by-products of this "driving" are detrimental... not just the unsightly color of water that is produced... that the hobbyist must address: chemically filter, massive water change-out... or suffer poor livestock growth, health consequently. Like the use of skimmers and other technology, algal filters have their upsides and downsides... They "take out too much" of somethings, and "produce too much of others"... Are they "worth it" for hobbyist use? IMO, no. But there are many people who disagree, and a few institutions who have installed and fight with these sorts of approaches continuously.
 

jski711

Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Ill take pics of my tank after the lights turn on......
 

SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Keifer you need a timer on the lights, 18 hours ON, 6 hours OFF. Only a brand new screen with no growth should be run 24 hours ON, to speed up the first growth for about a week.
 

SantaMonica

Well-Known Member
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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Ok here is a four-part video I made of the last scraping of the screen of my original bucket before I give it to the LFS to replace the tank-divider screen he's been testing. This video is low-light (with a 5 year old 2-meg camera), so you can't see the algae on the screen, but the purpose is to see the technique of screen cleaning/scraping:

Hi-res:

Part 1: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Scraping1.mpg
Part 2: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Scraping2.mpg
Part 2: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Scraping3.mpg
Part 3: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Scraping4.mpg

YouTube:

YouTube - Algae Scrubber: Cleaning/Scraping, part 1
YouTube - Algae Scrubber: Cleaning/Scraping, part 2
YouTube - Algae Scrubber: Cleaning/Scraping, part 3
YouTube - Algae Scrubber: Cleaning/Scraping, part 4
 

jski711

Member
Pictures Of My Beautiful Ats Only Filtration Sps Tank!!!

Well first i'll start by giving you a little background of my tank. its been up for 2 years now and am running t5 lighting. in the past i have had algae issues and phosphates tested above .1 from overfeeding. (i'm trying to fatten up my clowns and hopefully get them spawning). i've also got a 15g tank plumbed into my system that has a pair of mandarins in it which i am also trying to get spawning. i had a sick mandarin and dosed my tank with Maracyn to try and save him. after dosing this for a week i was unable to turn my skimmer on because it would just overflow from the medicine. after doing numerous water changes and about a month later i still was unable to turn it back on, thats when i saw this thread. I also had to turn off my calcium reactor because the co2 was dropping my ph too low, the bubbles from the skimmer were really helping me keep my ph up but with my skimmer not running it had to be turned off. thats when i decided to give this a try. i purchased a pre grown screen from inland and off i went. since adding the "scrubber" i have noticed a major increase in ph which allowed me to turn my calcium reactor back on and get things stable again. the reactor has only been back on for about 2 weeks now and im "re dialing" it in. my ph fluctuates between 7.8 at night and 8.0 during the day. I have over 30 different types of sps in my tank, just did a quick count, and i have noticed no ill side effects at all. i have also been overfeeding a ton, especially to my mandarins! i have also noticed that the green film of algae i would get on the glass every few days has gone. I don't even remember the last time i scraped it, although in the pics you will see it needs to be done soon cause i have a ton of coraline algae on it. So IMO this "scrubber" has done wonders for me. I have been skimmerless for over 3 months now and still do my normal water changes, sometimes i do go 2 weeks but normally every weekend i do one. the turf that was on the screen from inland is still there but it doesnt seem to be spreading but not receding either. below are some pictures from today, they were just quick shots so sorry if they are blurry but you will see the colors i've got are great and like i said earlier i have had NO ill side effects at all.

FTS
DSCF0582.jpg


Close ups from a few colonies
DSCF0583.jpg

DSCF0584.jpg

DSCF0586.jpg


Screen picture, Cleaned on wed of this week.

DSCF0588.jpg



Thanks for reading and Happy Reefing.

Jake
 

SantaMonica

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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

More great pics :)

the turf that was on the screen from inland is still there but it doesnt seem to be spreading but not receding either.

I think that for real turf to grow, it does need pulsed flow, with a fan blowing on it. Anyway you could do that? My Inland screen was 1/2 turf on one side, and zero on the other, and now it's 95% turf both sides. But I do have a wavetimer, and a fan.
 

jski711

Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

What type of pump are you running? Also how long on and off are you running it? How about some pics of the screen
 
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Jski- Thats a nice tank, but definitely not a TOTM..

btw- be careful with that Coralife timer, they have been known to catch on fire.
 

jski711

Member
Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

Well u said you wanted to see proof of a nice sps tank. Now that you have proof all you have to say is that my tank isn't "that" nice. I could care less about what you think about my tank, especially after I give you proof and then youve got nothing to say except that it isn't a totm, ya that's a good one. Hey look, what he's doing is working so now I have to eat my own words, lets just make stupid remarks instead of saying wait maybe I was wrong and this could work..... Usually there is more than one way to do things. Its people like you that post things like you just did that makes these forums miserable. These forums are a place to improve on new ideas and share information. This is not a place for childish remarks and puting people down for "different" ideas.

Jake

I also run t5s, does that make me the devil?
 

SantaMonica

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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

The bucket (until it leaves for the LFS) 10" slot is underpowered with a Hydor L30 (320 gph) at full power; it really should be the L40. Hydor's are nice because they have a built-in flow adjust without adding a ball valve. I've tried timing from 15, 30, and now I'm on 60 seconds.

The acrylic 22" slot uses an Eheim 1260 (635 gph) which had to be reduced with a ball valve; it's currently not timed, until I get rid of the bucket, then I'll use that timer. Here's the screen, and I'll soon post the first growth pics:

AcrylicPipeScreen.jpg
 

SantaMonica

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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

The Power Of Light, recap:

Varga posted these before, and are a great example. Here is before the cleaning... it looks like the screen has an even coverage all across it:

UserVargaSeaMonsterOnRS&RF-3.jpg



But here is after:

UserVargaSeaMonsterOnRS&RF-4.jpg



Notice that the center area has a tougher, stiffer algae that holds on stronger because it is made up of less water and more fibers (i.e., more N and P, less H20). Now why do you think that the stronger algae formed in the middle of the screen? Here's why:
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UserVargaSeaMonsterOnRS&RF-5.jpg


Yes, because of the lights. The screen may look evenly covered in light when you look at it, but your eyes can't tell the high power areas from the low power areas. Also, when you double the distance of the light, you would think the power of the light would be reduced to one-half; but it's actually reduced to ONE FOURTH of what it was. So when optimizing your design, you want the lights as close to the screen as possilbe, all the way across the screen.
 

SantaMonica

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Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin

jski I'll spread the word about your nice pics... watch out for the skimmer nazi's who will come a yellin' :)
 
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