MACNA speaker session. Very disappointed!!

[dgasmd]

I had registered for MACNA months ago. I was going to buy my plane ticket yesterday, so I went to their site to see when the talks began on friday. I noticed they have all the talks concurrently during the day running 3 of them all the time. That means you can only go to 1/3 of the talks and you miss out on the rest. I find this extremely crappy to say it politely. They have a combination of speakers that will likely not be repeated anytime soon. The topics are pretty good too, but we get to miss 2/3 of them even though we are paying for all of it.

Last night, I sent them an email inquiring about this:

From: "Alberto Perez Dimaggio, MD "
> <dgasmd@netscape.net>
> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:48:11 -0400
> Subject: MACNA speaker sessions
>
> I had registered for MACNA, but just noticed that
> the speaker sessions
> run concurrently. That means if we are interested in
> most of the talks
> we miss out on 2/3 of them!! That is a shame since
> this is the first
> MACNA that will have some of the speakers you ahve
> listed in one place.
> Please let me know if this is the case or if I
> misunderstood. I may not
> show up and just buy the video recording later
> instead.
>
> Alberto

This is what I got from them today:

Thanks for your inquirey,
Speaker sessions run concurrently. DVDs will be
available after MACNA for $39 per session , each
approx 1 1/2 hours.
Regards,
Ron

I find this really irritating. This is a money making scheme at the expense of the hobbiest like any other. The worst part is that it is by another group of hobbiest too!! So I pay for the entire thing, get 1/3 of the talks only, and then have to pay 14 (missed) x $39 = $546 to get the rest?

I may be cancelling my reservation. Thank god I haven't pay for it yet.

Sorry about the outburst of anger. I have been sniffing too much PVC glue today

 

[Witfull]

i think you see things perfectly clear Al, it does seem like a fleecing. maybe im not missing out on much,,,,only 1/3,,lol

 

[dgasmd]

Dude, don't call me Al. That is my wife's ex boyfriend!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Witfull]

sorry Alberto

 

[dgasmd]

No problem man LOL..............

 

[sharks]

I agree and I wanted to attend some of the industry talks and that means I miss even more. But the bottom line is that they only have 3 days and I don’t think IMAC was any different last year. Does it suck sure but then again where else can we se these people speak? I'm going more for the good times and to meet all you nice people I have come to know online over the years. Sorry you are upset but I do hope you still attend. I want to bug you with all my questions on that monster tank and the plumbing design.

 

[ReefLady]

Well, as an example, they have 17 1.5-hour speaker sessions lined up Saturday by my count. Sunday looks about the same. Logistically, I don't see how they could do all speakers at separate times.

The $49 per speaker session is definitely a fleecing, but I don't see how they could have squeezed in so many speakers any other way.

T

 

[dgasmd]

They could go in 1 hour sessions sat and 3 of them from 3-6PM, sunday 8-12 and then 1-7PM, sunday 8-12 and then 1-4 pm. The workshops they have I find them to be completely out of place. Something else to make money seems like. 98% of the people that goes to these things are more than just begining, so workshops about beginner issues seems out of place in a conference with emphasis on the advanced hobbiest.
These are just opinions obvioulsy. It is not my club hosting it or me organizing it. Just an opinion from a hobbiest.

 

[JennM]

Can't please everybody If it pisses you off that much, don't go but I think it's cutting off your nose to spite your face to not be able to see as many key people as you can, learn about new products, speak to manufacturer reps and get to socialize with fellow hobbyists and professionals.

I'm no longer involved with MACNA/MASNA but I served as secretary of MASNA for 2 years, the first year being the year that MASNA and MACNA nearly ceased to be because of a conference that nearly bankrupted the organization.

It's easy to sit back and be critical... but if you think you can do a better job, you're welcome to get your club together and bid for the next MACNA if it hasn't been awarded yet. (I'm not current with goings on with MASNA at this time, so I have no idea when the bidding starts and finishes). I know that Boston was vying for the current conference when I was still involved with MASNA.

These events take a year or more of planning and cost many thousands of dollars to put on. The speakers' expenses and honorariums have to be paid, the facilities, most of the host club's manpower/womanpower is volunteer, but the club has operating costs. At the end of it all, a club hopes to at least break even... if they are lucky they have a few dollars left over at the end, and sometimes they end up in the hole... depends on good planning, good attendance and a bit of good luck.

To state that you think the thing is a "money grab" is a tad bit unfair.

JMHO and back into lurkdom for me.

Jenn

 

[dgasmd]

Jennm:

It is obvious you are looking a this with a different point of reference than the rest of us. It is also obvious that you are looking at it from an institutional and organizational point of view and not from the seat where most of the attendees will be.

If you look around the country, most hobbiest are the average Joe that has a hard time mantaining their hobby (addiction really) due to expenses. Most don't belong to a club either and the ones that do don't belong to a club with an attendance of 300 in every meeting either like the BRS delegate said in the last MACNA when they spoke about their plans. These people I am talking about are not only the newbies, but also the well seasoned hobbiest.

We have all been overcharged and undersold at one point or another, but the confort comes always when you get help without asking for anything in return from other hobbiest. Their generosity and honesty keeps you going and keeps you coming back for more. Also makes a lot of people ,that otherwise wouldn't normaly, help others and go the extra mile. It is when another hobbiest looks like he/she is trying to take advantage of you that you feel really hurt.

Most of us see MACNA as the opportunity to go learn something from those some of us respect enough to call "experts". I know some see it as an opportunity to go party in another city with some other people that share their addiction. Sort of like a reefapalooza.

Do I know these things cost money? Sure I do. Do I know that booking the speakers in one place, hotel organizations, sponsors, etc is hard work, difficult, and very costly? Sure I do. Do you think the average hobbiest that wants to earn from this conference will cough up gladly or not $546 to hear what he missed while he was there? I highly doubt it, but I could be very wrong.

By the way, at no time did I say it was a money grab. I did say it was a money making scheme, which it is. The DVD gives the change to any that want to hear the other sessions missed. It makes money to help pay for the costs. Doesn't it? However, it seems like an exageration when the last few MACNA speaker sessions ahve been sold as one single disc with all of them with a price in the neighborhood of $120. Correct me if this is not right. I know the Texas and kentuky ones have.

on a last note, I don't see why you are making this a personal point/offense. I am not attacking in any way an indicidual here, but rather the decision that will affect most of the attendees.

Are you the same person that goes by this name in reefs.org????

 

[JennM]

Yes, I post at RDO, RC, and TRT as JennM -- what you see is what you get.

Yes, I'm looking at it from an "institutional" standpoint. Since I was the MASNA secretary and I was witness to all the settling of the MACNA that went wrong... boy what a debacle that was. If not for the help of Brian Koening, who volunteered his services as attorney, and Nancy Swart who was the president of MASNA at the time, there would be no MACNA as we know it, this year. Brian and Nancy were able to negotiate a settlement that kept MASNA out of bankruptcy.

Like I said -- if you think you can organize a better event, have at it!

Jenn

 

[Craig Manoukian]

MACNA/MASNA, or whatever organization could easily reduce their costs by having less speakers who make more presentations on a rotating schedule through out the 3 days. They could be arranged so that someone could attend all of the presentations with proper planning.

Proper scheduling by the sponsoring organization and planning by the attendees would make for a win/win in my book.

I have run and been a worker bee for many non-profits and while I know you can't make evryone happy, the more you do, the better for eveybody.

They could still offer DVDs of the sessions and folks could get the ones they really enjoyed, eh?

 

[JennM]

Like I said, I'm no longer a member of MASNA... just offering up what I saw when I was active.

I'll reiterate... if you think you can organize a better conference, put your money where your mouth is and bid on the next conference.

Jenn

 

[Craig Manoukian]

Jenn,

Why don't you take the edge off your biting remarks. No need to pour acid in the pool here. Where's your money, eh?

 

[JennM]

No acid. None at all (folks are extremely defensive here... the few times I've posted I've been met with extremes...) Just offering up what I saw as a BOD member of MASNA, and my experience in service clubs/hobby clubs. Nothing more, nothing less, Scouts' honour. (No typo, I'm Canadian...)

My money? I'm a LFS owner. I don't have any money.

I just found it odd that the originator of this thread would be that pissed that he/she would sack the whole conference at the expense of getting their money's worth.

As I said before, JMHO...

Jenn

 

[dgasmd]

JennM:

I don't mind being quoted on what I say. In no place in any post above will you see where I say I was "pissed" as you describe it. I said I was "irritated", I said I found the lack of opportunity to see all the speakers "crappy". My last line says: "Sorry about the outburst of anger. I have been sniffing too much PVC glue today." Maybe in your neck of the woods they all mean the same thing. Maybe I am not used to paying for product A as advertised and having to be happy about getting product Z just because I got something.

Again, you make your replies too personal. Not being sensitive, just pointing it out. I have read a few of your posts in RDO and that is why I recognized the writing style, not even the name.

I say we call it a day. I mad my point and so did you. We can now go back to our regularly scheduled programing. Have a good rest of the weekend.

 

[JennM]

Hrmmm "pissed [off]", "irritated"... means more or less the same thing where I hail from. But I don't feel the need to argue semantics.

Like I said, if you or anybody feel you can do a better job, bid for a conference.

Go or not go - your dime. I'm not going because I cannot afford to go, nor do I have the coverage to leave my shop. Would if I could, but can't so I won't. I do look forward to reading peoples' experiences though.

Jenn

 

[Scrooge]

I don't get it, you are complaining because they are offering too many speakers? In fact, they are offering so many speakers that they have to have more than one going at a time. Sounds kind of like the big outdoor music festivals where they have three stages going at once and you just have to choose which ones you want to see. With so many speakers you are basically guaranteed that at any given moment there is at least one you will have a strong interest in seeing. Sounds like a fantastic conference to me.

As for the DVDs, yeah, I agree they sound way overpriced, but noone has to buy them.

JennM doesn't seem to be pouring any acid here either. As she pointed out, these things are run by volunteers and they usually struggle just to break even. If anything she is simply coming to their defense. I don't think she attacked you in any way, the worst she said was if you think you could do better than go for it. That sounds to me like only a defense of the current club and a challenge to you to improve it if you can instead of complaining.

Wish I was going so I could complain about them offering too much.

 

[Craig Manoukian]

Scrooge,

Well we continue to see things differently eh? Some things never change. Some people are open to suggestion and some are not. I'm not even going and offered a point of view that might benefit both camps.

The respons of "put your money where your mouth is" was bush league and personal, hypocritical as well coming from someone with an empty wallet.

Good to see you John, but we'll agree to disagree.

 

[dgasmd]

Scrooge:

I think you completely misunderstood. Nobody is complaining because they have too many speakers. As a matter of fact I referenced to the point that all the speakers and their topics are great, but unfortunately attendees will only get to hear 1/3 of it because they are all going 3 at the same time. I even pointed out that was a shame since this will be one of the few times some of these people will be in the same place. I actually applaude the BRS for having booked the caliber of speakers they are having, it is just bad to only be able to hear 1/3 of it. If you go to their site and look at the topics, you'll see that they are great and very applicable as to where we are in the hobby today with so many systems, methods, new lights and reflector studies, and a whole lot of things happening in the last year alone. So in other words, I agree 100% with you in that is should be a fantastic conference if I could see all of it and not just 1/3.

The DVD being so expensive sort of worsen it because it is not like they are offering them to the ones that already listened to the talk as an extra option, but rather to the ones that missed 2/3 of them.

Trust me when I say I can only imagine what it takes to put of these things together. I know enough people in the trade in an in clubs that have done this before to know how much money, how much work, and how much effort it takes to put them together. I never said it was a piece of cake.

As for the comment of "if you think you can do it better, go ahead", maybe I am a little slow and don't get it. What the heck does that have to do with the point of not being able to attend to 2/3 of the talks? Nobody said the BRS sucked, or that they don't know how to organize something, or anything even remotely related to that. Again, forgive me for been a little slow.