Let's talk PH buffer

saintsreturn

saintsreturn

Well-Known Member
I searched, and read, searched and read some more. But I didn't get the answers I am looking for. So let's talk.

My PH dropped from 8.0 to 7.8ish. LFS says I should aim for 8.4 and sold me on some PH buffer. Ok so the questions:
1) Do skimmers react to Ph buffer being added?
2) Will dosing this product make my tank need it to sustain?
3) Water changes enough to chalk this up as a wasted purchase?
4) should I use it?

And for my favorite part....

5) what is your opinion on the product and the application?
Get personal on this one, I am looking for experience and truth, not tact. I want this to pull up in the search and help others who are upgrading and concerned.


Tank info: (don't let this change your answer, but if it's relevant)
75g display
40lbs sand
65lbs Rock
Led lighting
Overflow box
Vortex pump on rotating schedule

20 gallon sump (12g water)
Heater
Pump
150 skimmer
No mechanical filtration
Green stuff (mixed bag of "grass")
8lbs of sand
5lbs of Rock
Led lighting

Parameters
PH 7.8-7.9
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
Phosphate 0

Still haven't figured out the calcium test.


Let's do this


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chipmunkofdoom2

chipmunkofdoom2

Well-Known Member
I think it's helpful to understand what pH means in the context of a reef aquarium. The obligatory RHF article does a great job at this, but I'll summarize. Basically, there are two (technically three) things that affect pH in our aquarium. First is alkalinity.* When alkalinity is low, you're going to have a tough time keeping a stable pH or keeping it higher than 8.0. The second thing that affects pH is the carbon dioxide levels in your home. CO2 can build up in your home if you don't open windows or doors very often, and in a high CO2 environment, the pH drops and the water becomes more acidic.** The third and more technical thing that affects pH is the nitrogen cycle, or converting ammonia to nitrates. If your tank is still cycling, you have a high bioload, or anything in the tank is putting a heavy load on your biological filtration, the natural process of converting ammonia into nitrite into nitrate drives down pH. In a tank with appropriate stock levels where one doesn't overfeed, this shouldn't be a concern, but it could still affect your pH.

So, since the only other way to control pH besides lowering ambient CO2 levels is by increasing the alkalinity, most pH buffers are alkalinity supplements. If you check out the RHF article linked above, you can see a chart that plots out what your pH will be (in general) at different alkalinity levels.

The reason I dislike pH buffers is because it doesn't encourage good understanding of water chemistry. Raising alkalinity might help a bit, but if your home has stuffy air with high CO2 levels, all the alkalinity supplements in the world won't solve your pH problem. Just labeling a bottle as "pH buffer" and saying "this will increase your pH" at best requires a disclaimer, and at worst it's just not true. There's nothing wrong with most pH buffers, they're just alkalinity supplements. No more, no less.

To answer your questions:

saintsreturn said:
1) Do skimmers react to Ph buffer being added?
- They shouldn't. Most are just an alkalinity supplement

2) Will dosing this product make my tank need it to sustain?
- It will raise your alkalinity, which you will need to maintain. Alkalinity swings are pretty stressful, especially on SPS.

3) Water changes enough to chalk this up as a wasted purchase?
- Maybe to the first part. If your water changes have good alkalinity levels, you may not need it. If corals in your tank are using alkalinity, you may need it. Maybe to the second part. See my answer to the first part ;)

4) should I use it?
- If your alkalinity is low, couldn't hurt. If your alkalinity is low, though, you should also be testing for Mg and Ca, and dosing them as well (read: a two part alk/ca supplement might be a better choice).

5) what is your opinion on the product and the application?
- Heh, see the novel I wrote above :)
Click to expand...

TL;DR: pH is hard to control. You can stabilize and in some cases raise your pH by raising alkalinity, but there's a limit to the effectiveness of that approach, especially if you have high CO2 levels in your home. I would absolutely not does anything for alkalinity unless you are testing for alkalinity and know your levels are low. Also, I'd invest in a good test kit for Ca, Alk and Mg if you haven't done so already. I'd say these parameters are as important, if not more important, than measuring nutrient levels. Due to the nature of how important these are, I can't even tell you what my ammonia/nitrate/phosphate/pH levels are. I can tell you what my Mg/Alk/Ca are.

* - note that when we say alkalinity, what we mean is really the carbonate content of the water. The dissolved carbonate is what makes the water resistant to changes in acidity (pH). We simply call it alkalinity because that's how we test for it, we measure how resistant the water is to changes in pH. A technicality, but one maybe worth observing.
** - interesting side note, this is part of what's happening to many of the worlds' reefs that are in trouble. High atmospheric greenhouse gas levels (high CO2) are making ocean water slightly more acidic, effectively lowering the pH.
 
saintsreturn

saintsreturn

Well-Known Member
Door is open most days. It must be something else. More to follow after I test alkalinity. And for the record, I spent most of yesterday with the door open (3ft from the tank)


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chipmunkofdoom2

chipmunkofdoom2

Well-Known Member
Haha, you guys are too nice. I'm just repeating the good info that I hear. Anyway, always glad to help out. Hope the info is useful!
 
saintsreturn

saintsreturn

Well-Known Member
Ok guys, so let's say the house is circulating well so we know CO2 is not an issue. Bio load should be good and the skimmer is working nicely. The ph is still a little low and therefore the alkalinity is low.
Should I dose or should I look into other things? I am ordering a test kit for alk as soon as I log off here.


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chipmunkofdoom2

chipmunkofdoom2

Well-Known Member
Raising alkalinity certainly should help. Here's a good chart from that Randy Holmes-Farley article:

Figure2.jpg


Even if your CO2 is a little high, raising the alkalinity should help increase the pH. Outside of this, though, there's not going to be much you can do to increase the pH. If your pH is above 7.9, I really wouldn't be too worried. There's really not much you can do besides aerating your home and raising the alkalinity.
 
MatroxD

MatroxD

Active Member
saintsreturn said:
Ok guys, so let's say the house is circulating well so we know CO2 is not an issue. Bio load should be good and the skimmer is working nicely. The ph is still a little low and therefore the alkalinity is low.
Should I dose or should I look into other things? I am ordering a test kit for alk as soon as I log off here.


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Click to expand...
It's honestly tough, because messing with your alk is risky if your not used to it.. Mind you, I'm coming from a sps standpoint, because that is what I love.. But it's tricky worrying about ph, and it's a very slippery slope.. If the ph is at least 7.8,I wouldn't mess with it(this comes from running my system for the longest in the ph range of 7.7 to 7.8). And just because the ph is low, doesn't Mean your alk is low.. Like what range are you trying to get to? And what are you trying to grow? Because your animals will determine what you sort of should try to stick to..

I am saying this because of my desire a few months ago to try to "experiment" with dripping kalk on top of my carx. I was trying to bump things a little, and my sps love kalk.. I maintain my alk at 7.0 to 7.2, and it only went to 8.5, but my animals had both been used to the lower alk, and I run pellets.. So it wasn't good.. Things just didn't do right, and I lost about a month of growth tinkering around.. But once I disconnected the kalk and got back to basics, things have kicked again..

Ph, as I have learned isn't a big deal, and I don't even pay attention to my tank ph anymore to be honest.. It's just not a big deal unless it's abnormally low.. But, if your going to play with it, be sure to use 2(3) part and make sure your mag is good and stable first.. But I seriously would reconsider messing with it.. However, on the other hand it is good to know what it may and can do for you..

If your looking to raise your ph, start simple and slow with kalk. It's cheap, but you have to drip it very slowly.. Otherwise, your looking at a 2(3) part setup, which allows for more control and stability, and, it's a good way to learn..

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