I know you probably hear this all the time. I use to be a freshwater guy. Did it for years. I recently (about a year and a half ago) went to saltwater. I have not had any real problems where fish are concerned, but I can't keep an invert alive to save my hide. After I saw that my tank was in good standing, around 8 months into it, I decided to get a tomato bubble tip anemone for my Clowns. It would not stay high in the tank at all. Everytime I would stick it on the rocks, about an hour later I would find it under them. I didn't think this was a real problem, just anoying. I then purchased a Pink Condy, and it never did stick to anything. It just floated around the tank for a day or so, then it died. Meanwhile, my Bubble tip lived for about 3 weeks, then he went too. My PH was okay, 8.2; Nitrite was good at 0.0 ppm; Amonia was 0.0; but my Nitrate was extremely high at 80 ppm. I quickly got it under control though. Like a fool, I wiped out my biological filtration by cleaning my canister too well, and I think it spiked up so highly for this reason. Now, about 2 months later everything is back to normal. I still can't seem to get the Nitrate below 15 ppm though. My tap water comes out at over 20 ppm, so I can't really do a whole lot about that. I am using Fluval Clearmax in my canister. The other day I purchased a Chocolate chip Star. He did well for two or three days. He crawled under my rocks and melted into a pile of sticky, very nasty slime crap. Anyway, Thursday I decided to try another anemone again. I got a Pink Hatian Condy and I'm getting concerned. He was completly inflated, and very active. Now, Saturday afternoon he's very deflated, and not active at all. Is he dying? If so, is there anything I can do to help him, and also make it safe for more. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
Is my anemone dying?
- Thread starter Jaydog
- Start date
ugg, patience is a must, you really have to wait until your equipment is up to the job, canister filters and tap water will not make a livable home for anems, stability in all water parameters is essential for survival, lighting is another major requirement, I would suggest you return the anem to the lfs as quick as possible and remedy your tanks equipment. Steve
oops almost forgot Welcome to RS!
oops almost forgot Welcome to RS!
Thank you both for such a warm welcome, and very good advice. Sorry to say, but he did die. I think my lighting is okay. I have a Coralife Aqualight with 4 - 65 watt bulbs, with lunar LED's. Two are 10000K sunlight, and the other two are True Blue Actinic. I purchased this in the hopes that this was my problem, but aparently wasn't. I didn't know that the Condy wasn't a hosting anemone. He was just the cheapest one. I know that my tap water is a pretty bad thing. I use those treatments that claim to make tap water safe, but I doubt their performance. I figured that it makes it "close" to usable though. Are you suppose to buy distilled water, and use that? I concidered it, but at around a dollar a gallon, this could get expensive in a hurry. I have priced deionizers, I think that's what it's called, but they seem to be pretty pricey too. I know API makes one for around $100, would this one work well? Also, I have a protien skimmer that I can't get to work corectly. I am using it as a "hang on" because I don't have a sump. I would like to make one, but I have so many questions about it I only get more lost. I have tried to research it online, but can't seem to find any real help. I'm a very visual person, and I can't seem to find pictures of one broken down. Is a sump an option over the canister filter? Thanks again.
hello again Jay, if you really want to keep an anem I hate to break it to you but "expensive" is the name of the reefing game, lighting needs a bump up can you add a metal halide some where? tap water is a lot more complicated than just neutralizing ammonia, an ro/di unit is the better option unless you have a very small tank, i would be quite willing to help you with your skimmer, describe what its not doing and a model would help too. Cannister filters are dirt traps and end up producing more nitrate than your system can remove, the best filter is live rock, 11/2 to 2 lbs a gallon is good, if your wanting to do this with any success your going to have to spend some money, you can do this slowly with a plan but you need to know what you want to do first. Steve
I would not consider getting another invert until you can set up an RO/DI unit. It is critical to keep nitrAtes below 10ppm (zero is the goal) for them.
You should also be able to maintain certain water parameters such as salinity, temperature, calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium. How do those test right now in your tank?
Shoot for the parameters found here: Reef Aquarium Water Parameters by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
Some good test kits to use are Salifert, API, and ELos.
You should also be able to maintain certain water parameters such as salinity, temperature, calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium. How do those test right now in your tank?
Shoot for the parameters found here: Reef Aquarium Water Parameters by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
Some good test kits to use are Salifert, API, and ELos.
I'm sorry, I guess I'm more confused than I thought. I don't have any reef items in my setup yet. I'm doing okay keeping fish alive, I just can't manage to get anything beond fish. I guess I wanted to get started with the cheaper items first, then if I can make it work with the cheap stuff, then go to bigger, better, and more pricey things. I live in Ohio, and aquarium things in my small town are pretty expencive. My wallet is pretty limited as well having two small childern, 30 years left on my house, and not to mention the cost of everything else in the world skyrocketing. I pretty much do what my buget will allow, (saddly isn't much).
I might show my inexperience here, but how do I make rocks filter everything. My LFS is no help at all. I asked their "marine specialist" for some advice on setting up a refugim. After getting a very confused look from her, she replys, " you don't really need one of those. What you need to do is buy a larger tank, with a sump overflow built in". Somewhere I think she misunderstood what I was asking. Now getting back to the rock filteration, do you still have to suck the poo out? How do you keep everything clean on the sand? I guess I just don't get this reef thing. Maybe I will just stick to a FO without inverts. Sorry if I have waisted your time. Thanks again though for all the help you have given.
I might show my inexperience here, but how do I make rocks filter everything. My LFS is no help at all. I asked their "marine specialist" for some advice on setting up a refugim. After getting a very confused look from her, she replys, " you don't really need one of those. What you need to do is buy a larger tank, with a sump overflow built in". Somewhere I think she misunderstood what I was asking. Now getting back to the rock filteration, do you still have to suck the poo out? How do you keep everything clean on the sand? I guess I just don't get this reef thing. Maybe I will just stick to a FO without inverts. Sorry if I have waisted your time. Thanks again though for all the help you have given.
its never, ever, a waste of time, only dumb questions are the ones unasked, ok why not we go simple, lets work with what you have, you can build up when you have a foundation of knowledge, rule #1 ask us, not your fish shop. so what we would really like right now is a list of everything you have, tanksize, lights, live rock amount, salt mix, skimmer etc, you dont need to go all fancy, beauty is in the eye of the beholder lol.
Hello again. I have a 55 gal tank with about 90lbs of live rock. The tank is about a year old, and when I bought the rocks I got about 40lbs of actual live rock and another 50lbs of nonliving. I have around 80lbs of Agra alive white caribbean sand. I am using a Penn Plax Cascade 100 canister filter, with a Odyssea ps75 skimmer. I am using a Coralife Aqualight with 4 - 65 watt bulbs, with lunar LED's. Two are 10000K sunlight, and the other two are True Blue Actinic. I remember you saying I need to add a few MH lights, but I'm not sure how. I just spent about $350 for this light so I don't really want to replace it. Also, it takes up almost all the space at the surface so I'm not sure how to add extra lighting. I'm sure it could be done though.
I do have quite a bit of coraline algae growing in several places, so I think that's a good thing, right? I know I need to get rid of that canister, but what do I replace it with? And yes, Nitrates have always been a huge problem. I also know that I need to do something about using tap water. I just received the deionizer filter today. Before I open it, would you recommend selling it on eBay and geting a RO/DI filteration? If so, what brand and type would you recommend. I found one that connects under your sink and I believe you are suppose to use it for drinking water as well. Here is a link to the one I am looking at. Products, Premium Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water Filters Systems, Portable Purifiers, Filtration Parts I concidered the RO-45 or even the RO-90. Water is something my family needs to drink more of anyway. I thought that this might just help in both areas. If this isn't what I'm looking for, or it there is something I can make, or maybe this is more than I need, please let me know. My father use to work in the water filtration business years ago. I think he would make pond filters for stocked ponds. I asked him and he still has the know how but he primarily worked with carbon and fiberglass filters. He has never done RO before but I thought about asking him to help me make containers that replacement filters or membranes would fit into. Please just let me know what would be best.
I also was not very impressed with my skimmer either. After about two weeks I still can't get it to work right. I understand the concept behind it, and I know what it should be doing, I just can't make it do it. I concidered getting rid of it and getting a Remora. I have heard that this is a good one, and seems to be very reliable.
Well I think that about covers it. I don't have a refug or a sump. I am very interested in making one though. If you need more info I will of corse be more than happy to give it to you. Thanks so much.
I do have quite a bit of coraline algae growing in several places, so I think that's a good thing, right? I know I need to get rid of that canister, but what do I replace it with? And yes, Nitrates have always been a huge problem. I also know that I need to do something about using tap water. I just received the deionizer filter today. Before I open it, would you recommend selling it on eBay and geting a RO/DI filteration? If so, what brand and type would you recommend. I found one that connects under your sink and I believe you are suppose to use it for drinking water as well. Here is a link to the one I am looking at. Products, Premium Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water Filters Systems, Portable Purifiers, Filtration Parts I concidered the RO-45 or even the RO-90. Water is something my family needs to drink more of anyway. I thought that this might just help in both areas. If this isn't what I'm looking for, or it there is something I can make, or maybe this is more than I need, please let me know. My father use to work in the water filtration business years ago. I think he would make pond filters for stocked ponds. I asked him and he still has the know how but he primarily worked with carbon and fiberglass filters. He has never done RO before but I thought about asking him to help me make containers that replacement filters or membranes would fit into. Please just let me know what would be best.
I also was not very impressed with my skimmer either. After about two weeks I still can't get it to work right. I understand the concept behind it, and I know what it should be doing, I just can't make it do it. I concidered getting rid of it and getting a Remora. I have heard that this is a good one, and seems to be very reliable.
Well I think that about covers it. I don't have a refug or a sump. I am very interested in making one though. If you need more info I will of corse be more than happy to give it to you. Thanks so much.
rmlevasseur
Active Member
Your nitrates may also be coming from your cansiter filter. Contrary to what you might hear, there is absolutely nothing wrong with canister filters so long as you clean the canister at least weekly. Otherwise they become nitrate factories.
Hey Jay! so we need to rationalize what you have with what you should get, ro unit- anything is better than tap, you can put a T fitting on the output side, one line to drink and one line to a di unit, a di unit is available as an add on for about $50. Lighting, forget the MH for now and concentrate on lower light corals, leathers,mushrooms,colts etc, avoid the high light demanding ones, clams,anem's sps etc. The canister filter can be used with the thinking"I must clean it weekly" if not problems will arise.Sump, you can go with or without, if your on top of your waterchanges and cleaning your fine.Post pics of the skimmer working and we will help you fine tune it, good luck. Steve
BoomerD
Well-Known Member
Howdy! Welcome to the Sanctuary. Where are you at in Ohio? I know a few reefers there, maybe we can get you some live help...
First off...you are creating a "toxic soup" for anemones. It's no wonder they won't live in your tank. Between the tap water which is probably high in all kinds of nasties and the mechanical filters, (canister filter) your water MAY be ok for freshwater fishies, but it's certainly not good for marine fishes nor inverts. Your lighting is not really enough for anemones, BUT, if you can get your water right, then MAYBE one would survive.
(If the hobbyist keeps the water, then the water will keep the animals)
As for the Reverse Osmosis units you listed...they're probably good units, but way over priced. Take a look here:
RO/DI Systems
They're one of our sponsors, and many of our members are using their units with great success.
For a 55 gallon tank, I'd recommend the Remora Pro over the Remora. Just a better skimmer in my opinion.
Let me introduce you to one of the hobbyists' best friends:
The New Marine Aquarium by Michael S. Paletta (Saltwater Aquarium Supplies > Books > Saltwater Books )
Next, while I'm at it, let me advise you to either find a new LFS, (local fish store) or at least learn more so you don't fall victim to their bad advice. Also, browse through our sponsors for your supplies. If you paid $250 for a 48" Corallife 4X65 watt light, you got robbed.
48" 4x65W Coralife LUNAR Aqualight Deluxe Series2 x Actinic and 2 x 10,000K, 4x 3/4W Blue LED's -Straight Pin Base - 53406
MOST LFS are over-priced on dry goods...it's a big part of their business, and is where they make most of their money. I don't fault them for that, but when $$$ are tight for a hobbyist, and every dollar counts, why pay their prices when you can beat them (by a LOT) on-line?
We were all green in this hobby at one time. We've all asked some "dumb questions" at one time or another, and (hopefully) learned from them. I'll echo the comment made by our Sasquatch the Canuck...
"The only truly dumb questions are the ones that you don't ask."
I've kept and raised anemones for over 20 years. They are very demanding of excellent water quality, and if they die in your tank, they can foul it badly, and in worst case scenarios, they can just about wipe out a tank with an ammonia spike when they go...
I hope some of this helps. We're not here to scare you off, just to help get you on the right track. (and help you spend your $$$ wisely)
First off...you are creating a "toxic soup" for anemones. It's no wonder they won't live in your tank. Between the tap water which is probably high in all kinds of nasties and the mechanical filters, (canister filter) your water MAY be ok for freshwater fishies, but it's certainly not good for marine fishes nor inverts. Your lighting is not really enough for anemones, BUT, if you can get your water right, then MAYBE one would survive.
(If the hobbyist keeps the water, then the water will keep the animals)
As for the Reverse Osmosis units you listed...they're probably good units, but way over priced. Take a look here:
RO/DI Systems
They're one of our sponsors, and many of our members are using their units with great success.
For a 55 gallon tank, I'd recommend the Remora Pro over the Remora. Just a better skimmer in my opinion.
Let me introduce you to one of the hobbyists' best friends:
The New Marine Aquarium by Michael S. Paletta (Saltwater Aquarium Supplies > Books > Saltwater Books )
Next, while I'm at it, let me advise you to either find a new LFS, (local fish store) or at least learn more so you don't fall victim to their bad advice. Also, browse through our sponsors for your supplies. If you paid $250 for a 48" Corallife 4X65 watt light, you got robbed.
48" 4x65W Coralife LUNAR Aqualight Deluxe Series2 x Actinic and 2 x 10,000K, 4x 3/4W Blue LED's -Straight Pin Base - 53406
MOST LFS are over-priced on dry goods...it's a big part of their business, and is where they make most of their money. I don't fault them for that, but when $$$ are tight for a hobbyist, and every dollar counts, why pay their prices when you can beat them (by a LOT) on-line?
We were all green in this hobby at one time. We've all asked some "dumb questions" at one time or another, and (hopefully) learned from them. I'll echo the comment made by our Sasquatch the Canuck...
"The only truly dumb questions are the ones that you don't ask."
I've kept and raised anemones for over 20 years. They are very demanding of excellent water quality, and if they die in your tank, they can foul it badly, and in worst case scenarios, they can just about wipe out a tank with an ammonia spike when they go...
I hope some of this helps. We're not here to scare you off, just to help get you on the right track. (and help you spend your $$$ wisely)
Origami2547
Member
Hi Jay. Before you're going to have any luck at all with keeping your inverts alive, you're going to have to first get your nitrates under control. Fish can tolerate higher nitrate levels but many inverts, anemones, etc. cannot. That should be your first order of business.
Now, you've been running your canister filter for some time now. It's probably a hold-over principle that you've carried over from your freshwater days. While you may find it has some application in saltwater, it probably has less value than you think. If allowed to "go biological," that is, if it's allowed to harbor enough bacteria for it to become a significant aerobic processing point for ammonia and nitrites, it can be detrimental in two ways: First, it can become a source of nitrates in your open water column. Second, it will compete with your live rock and live sand for both ammonia and nitrites, thereby reducing the capacity of those parts of your biological filter.
This wouldn't be so bad if your (now biological) canister filter could also harbor the anaerobic bacteria that could process nitrates into nitrogen gas, but it can't. In the case of live rock and live sand, these anaerobic bacteria live in relatively close proximity to the aerobic bacteria which live closer to the water column. (You see, these anaerobes live deep in the sandbed and below the surface of your live rock.) Thus, they have the advantage of location to reduce nitrates before it builds up in the water column. In the case of a gone-biological canister filter, the nitrates are exported to the water column to be processed in other places (your live rock and sand). Unfortunately, because of the competition with the bacteria in the canister filter, the bacterial resources in those other areas will be less developed and capable of less processing than you have available.
Now, from what I've read, you have a fundamental problem with nitrates likely coming from two sources. Your source water and, probably, your canister filter. You need to deal with both.
First, I concur with the recommendation that you get an RO/DI system. A good one, with replaceable elements can be found for $200-$300. This will go a long way to not only dealing with the nitrates, but also the other crap that's typically in our municipal water sources.
Second, you should reconsider how you're using your canister filter. At the very least, you might consider cleaning it more frequently and maybe running it less frequently (just to remove particulates in the water column). If you're not doing this now, monitor your ammonia levels as you begin your maintenance regimen and allow your biological filtration in your rock and sand develop to take up the load that was once taken up by your filter.
In addition to the biological filtration, you're going to want a decent skimmer to pull the organics and other waste products out of your water column. What skimmer do you have now? An AquaC Remora Pro might do OK with your 55 gallon setup - it really depends on your bioload. An Aquamedic Turboflotor 1000 Multi SL might also work (since it can be adapted as a hang-over-top skimmer) well (though the pump is kind of large for an in-the-tank application). Really, though, you'll have more options available to you if you had a sump.
Finally, your lighting is a bit low for most anemones that rely on photosynthesis for some of their nutrition and certain corals, too. Not to fret, though. There are a lot of very attractive softies that are just perfect for your setup (and your electricity bills will be lower, too).
So, plan accordingly. Understand what kind of life is compatible with the equipment you have and the conditions you can provide. This is key to doing well and not getting discouraged. Welcome and good luck to you.
(BTW, Paletta's book that BoomerD has recommended is a good one to have on the shelf. It will also get you started on a more thoughtful selection of livestock in addition to setting up and maintaining your system.)
Now, you've been running your canister filter for some time now. It's probably a hold-over principle that you've carried over from your freshwater days. While you may find it has some application in saltwater, it probably has less value than you think. If allowed to "go biological," that is, if it's allowed to harbor enough bacteria for it to become a significant aerobic processing point for ammonia and nitrites, it can be detrimental in two ways: First, it can become a source of nitrates in your open water column. Second, it will compete with your live rock and live sand for both ammonia and nitrites, thereby reducing the capacity of those parts of your biological filter.
This wouldn't be so bad if your (now biological) canister filter could also harbor the anaerobic bacteria that could process nitrates into nitrogen gas, but it can't. In the case of live rock and live sand, these anaerobic bacteria live in relatively close proximity to the aerobic bacteria which live closer to the water column. (You see, these anaerobes live deep in the sandbed and below the surface of your live rock.) Thus, they have the advantage of location to reduce nitrates before it builds up in the water column. In the case of a gone-biological canister filter, the nitrates are exported to the water column to be processed in other places (your live rock and sand). Unfortunately, because of the competition with the bacteria in the canister filter, the bacterial resources in those other areas will be less developed and capable of less processing than you have available.
Now, from what I've read, you have a fundamental problem with nitrates likely coming from two sources. Your source water and, probably, your canister filter. You need to deal with both.
First, I concur with the recommendation that you get an RO/DI system. A good one, with replaceable elements can be found for $200-$300. This will go a long way to not only dealing with the nitrates, but also the other crap that's typically in our municipal water sources.
Second, you should reconsider how you're using your canister filter. At the very least, you might consider cleaning it more frequently and maybe running it less frequently (just to remove particulates in the water column). If you're not doing this now, monitor your ammonia levels as you begin your maintenance regimen and allow your biological filtration in your rock and sand develop to take up the load that was once taken up by your filter.
In addition to the biological filtration, you're going to want a decent skimmer to pull the organics and other waste products out of your water column. What skimmer do you have now? An AquaC Remora Pro might do OK with your 55 gallon setup - it really depends on your bioload. An Aquamedic Turboflotor 1000 Multi SL might also work (since it can be adapted as a hang-over-top skimmer) well (though the pump is kind of large for an in-the-tank application). Really, though, you'll have more options available to you if you had a sump.
Finally, your lighting is a bit low for most anemones that rely on photosynthesis for some of their nutrition and certain corals, too. Not to fret, though. There are a lot of very attractive softies that are just perfect for your setup (and your electricity bills will be lower, too).
So, plan accordingly. Understand what kind of life is compatible with the equipment you have and the conditions you can provide. This is key to doing well and not getting discouraged. Welcome and good luck to you.
(BTW, Paletta's book that BoomerD has recommended is a good one to have on the shelf. It will also get you started on a more thoughtful selection of livestock in addition to setting up and maintaining your system.)
Thank you guys so much for all your help. I thought about updating this thread but didn't think anyone was still looking at it.
Since I posted this thread I have bought:
A real nice RO/DI unit
I went ahead and bought the Remora C skimmer, (btw it works great too)
I have purchased another 50lbs of premium live Fiji live rock from Wholesale Aquatic Supplies - Online Store which IMO looks, smells, and is working wonderfuly. They were bright green and I could tell that they actually had things living in them. I even found two, what I think are mushrooms,(I might need to ID) still alive, I think. I knew I was taking a risk by not scraping them off, but I am glad now that I kept them, after about two weeks, they look pretty good. I think these rocks are far better than the rocks I am able to get from my LFS. These are a lot more porus and feel less dense. I think the LR I was using from my LFS is more hard. It's a wonder anything is able to live inside the rock. IT probably isn't.
Any way, I think I am on the right track now, thanks to you guys. My nitrates are still hovering right around 20ppm but I still have that crap canister. I started working on a sump/refug lastnight. I went to Lowes and got a bunch of acrylic, some aquatic silicone, and an empty 30 long empty aquarium. I think I can have it done today. Also, I have a friend that made me a real good deal on two 100W MH ballists and starters. I think in the near future I might try to create something more for lighting.
I have dont a TON of research and think I might have this problem solved. I am very optimistic about this sump. I guess now I need to find some Cheato, since the girl at my LFS doesn't seem to know what I'm talking about. Once I get my refug built I think I'm going to get more LR from that website I mentioned earlier. I don't think the LR I had in my tank prior to putting that in was really doing me any good at all. I would like to have about 150lbs when I'm finished.
I plan on sticking around reefsanctuary for a while. You guys are great, and very helpful. I apperciate it more than you know. I just hope that in the coming future I can answer the same "dumb questions" you have answered for me. I will keep my journey updated. Thanks again.
Since I posted this thread I have bought:
A real nice RO/DI unit
I went ahead and bought the Remora C skimmer, (btw it works great too)
I have purchased another 50lbs of premium live Fiji live rock from Wholesale Aquatic Supplies - Online Store which IMO looks, smells, and is working wonderfuly. They were bright green and I could tell that they actually had things living in them. I even found two, what I think are mushrooms,(I might need to ID) still alive, I think. I knew I was taking a risk by not scraping them off, but I am glad now that I kept them, after about two weeks, they look pretty good. I think these rocks are far better than the rocks I am able to get from my LFS. These are a lot more porus and feel less dense. I think the LR I was using from my LFS is more hard. It's a wonder anything is able to live inside the rock. IT probably isn't.
Any way, I think I am on the right track now, thanks to you guys. My nitrates are still hovering right around 20ppm but I still have that crap canister. I started working on a sump/refug lastnight. I went to Lowes and got a bunch of acrylic, some aquatic silicone, and an empty 30 long empty aquarium. I think I can have it done today. Also, I have a friend that made me a real good deal on two 100W MH ballists and starters. I think in the near future I might try to create something more for lighting.
I have dont a TON of research and think I might have this problem solved. I am very optimistic about this sump. I guess now I need to find some Cheato, since the girl at my LFS doesn't seem to know what I'm talking about. Once I get my refug built I think I'm going to get more LR from that website I mentioned earlier. I don't think the LR I had in my tank prior to putting that in was really doing me any good at all. I would like to have about 150lbs when I'm finished.
I plan on sticking around reefsanctuary for a while. You guys are great, and very helpful. I apperciate it more than you know. I just hope that in the coming future I can answer the same "dumb questions" you have answered for me. I will keep my journey updated. Thanks again.
fish friendly
Member
Hi All,
I have been reading the last few entries and find that I am lost. What is a canister filter? I am wondering because I set my tank up 6 months ago just like Jay and made some of the mistakes he did. wondering where to go from where I am at and need to know def. of some of the things you are talking about like the skimmer, what is that and what is it suposed to do? I have 125 gallons
I have been reading the last few entries and find that I am lost. What is a canister filter? I am wondering because I set my tank up 6 months ago just like Jay and made some of the mistakes he did. wondering where to go from where I am at and need to know def. of some of the things you are talking about like the skimmer, what is that and what is it suposed to do? I have 125 gallons
Reddog170
Active Member
Fish Friendly- a canister filter is one that takes the water in and runs it through a canister to filter the water, the problem is when it does this it traps to much that breaks down into nitrates and sends the nitrates back into your system. A skimmer is one of the basic thngs used in this hobby (a system can run without it if water changes are kept up on a regular schedule) it creates micro bubbles in a water colom that turn into a foam which then draws out excesive nutrients in the water, basicly. If you go cheap here you will not be happy. I would recomend getting some books and doing some research and asking more questions here. Start a chronicle and tell everyone just exactly what you have and just where you are at. This way the experts can help you out more than I can. I have been reefing for about 8 months and have learned a LOT, most of it here. So jump in and enjoy, we love helping out. Ohh And pics, Shaun