Inclinations of a no-filter media system.

[EagleEyes]

My inclinations are that a no-filter media system is feesible if in fact you strive to keep levels of nitrogen and nitrogen byproducts at a minimum. (.1 ppm) Therefore creating a sort of self sufficient tank that will cycle itself. are there any refutations to this, or is this a possible endeavor?

 

[Witfull]

its called the Berlin system. live rock and skimming.

 

[BoomerD]

You need SOME type of filter to break down the nitrogenous wastes. In the Berlin system as Wit described, the skimmer removes most of the organics, and the live rock provides a home for the bacterias that do the de-nitrification. No mechanical filters, just lots of nice porus live rock...

 

[Jerome]

I believe it's Bob Starks reef tank from ESV inc. that is all "natural" Lee Eng Chin style no skimming, no water changes, etc. only powerheads for water movement.

 

[EagleEyes]

Jerome is heading in the right direction. I was thinking of just the powerheads. the thing is that theres all those organics that get encrusted on the walls of the aquarium. I believe the solutions would be to use bio balls to give that stuff a place other than the walls of my aquarium. The thing is, i would like a system that doesnt need any type of filter media other than whats in the tank. Where can i find this all natural reef tank? is it this ESV inc.?

 

[Woodstock]

All natural? To me that means nothing artifical... like no glass bottom, no sides, no artifical lighting.... IE: an ocean.

How would an aquarium succeed long term with no exporting of nutrients (assuming you keep livestock in it) nor with any vit/min replinishment?

 

[EagleEyes]

Thats not my goal. i will suppliment it, but my goal is to keep no kind of filter in it. Only a light, a power head, and my livestock. I think the key is to have all the nutrients cancel each other out, so that everything gets used up somehow. such as one unit of macro to cancel out the effluent from one other unit (such as a fish.)

 

[Jerome]

Ultimate Marine Aquariums: Saltwater Dream Systems and How They Are Created by Michael S. Paletta has the tank I am talking about.

 

[EagleEyes]

oh ok ill definitely look for it. I was thinking of making a standard of maye a one inch by one inch cube of healthy marine macro algae. maybe with a bench mark of that common red algae.

 

[gussy]

I think it would work...as long as it's a big tank with tons of LR and LS...and with only one small fish and probably one shrimp and few snails.

 

[EagleEyes]

i guess, but i think it would work even in a small tank if you approach it gently. like with the macro first fed on fish food that dissolves in the water. after thats cured then add all your livestock according to how much macro you have. i think that what youre thinking is this: fish excrete stuff faster than any plant can soak up. well thats true, but im not neccessarily looking to over stock my aquarium. i am working on creating this theory.

 

[cheeks69]

I think it can work with a light bio-load and the use of Macro and even Xenia as a nutrient export I know of several hobbiests who use this method only.

 

[mps9506]

I'm might get flamed for this, but I really think that most people that attempt this type of system end up finding out that their system was just storing up nutrients for a long time until they end up with an unending battle with algae.
Not to deter you from attempting this, but keep in mind that most of the nutrients taken up by fish are not stored there.
I've kept mushrooms in rubbermaid containers with nothing but powerheads, liverock, SW and flourescent lights.
Adding fish means adding food and adding nutrients. Fish are very ineffcient at uptaking nutrients, most of it goes right through them.
If I were to do what you are doing then I would recomend doing it with an invert system only.
JMO.

 

[FFMedic]

Thats not my goal. i will suppliment it, but my goal is to keep no kind of filter in it. Only a light, a power head, and my livestock. I think the key is to have all the nutrients cancel each other out, so that everything gets used up somehow. such as one unit of macro to cancel out the effluent from one other unit (such as a fish.)

What you're describing is a refugium...Good choice in my opinion!

A refugium.. On a smaller scale of course, is how nature handles nutrients..i.e., the seagrass beds associated with all natural reefs.

I would stay away from the bio-balls...they can become nitrate factories!

Oh...and no water changes either!

 

[gussy]

You forgot something...doing weekly water change. It's cheating, but still no filter. I change 20% water on my 10G Mantis tank. There's LR and LS plus one small powerhead for circulation.

 

[cheeks69]

Adding fish means adding food and adding nutrients. Fish are very ineffcient at uptaking nutrients, most of it goes right through them.
If I were to do what you are doing then I would recomend doing it with an invert system only.
JMO.

I agree with you but fish are not the only ones that live in the tank, many filter feeders, fauna/infauna and even certain corals will only thrive in this type of environment. If you are using macros and Xenia they're also absorving nutrients. Now if this was an SPS system then I would would say that environment wouldn't work but there are exceptions. There's a member at another site that has an SPS dominated system and only mud filtration no skimmer and it looks incredible.

Photo courtesy of POLO

 

[mps9506]

I'm not saying at all it can't be done, but from what I've seen, the vast majority of folks who try "natural" systems with no skimming and only live rock, and think they can get away without water changes, end up with serious algae woes. Espcially once they get some heavy duty lighting.
It is very difficult to mimic nature in our boxes. The ocean is not an entirely closed system.

 

[DaveK]

... my goal is to keep no kind of filter in it. Only a light, a power head, and my livestock. I think the key is to have all the nutrients cancel each other out, so that everything gets used up somehow. such as one unit of macro to cancel out the effluent from one other unit (such as a fish.)

I would say that it's possible to create such a system. However, it's a very difficult balance to maintain.

Before trying something like this, ask yourself these questions...

What am I trying to gain, or demonstrate with this kind of a system?

Am I willing to risk several disaters or total loss of livstock as I learn how this kind of a system works?

Am I enough of an expert and do I have enough experience with SW and reef aquqrium systems to set this kind of a system up, and, more important, to maintain it?

IMHO, there are very few people out there that should be attempting "no filter" kind of aquarium. Be sure you have the right reasons and the "right stuff" for this sort of project.

 

[My2heartboys]

I'm not saying at all it can't be done, but from what I've seen, the vast majority of folks who try "natural" systems with no skimming and only live rock, and think they can get away without water changes, end up with serious algae woes. Espcially once they get some heavy duty lighting.
It is very difficult to mimic nature in our boxes. The ocean is not an entirely closed system.

I will choose to agree and disagree as well. Somebody who hasn't had tons of experience and research hours under their belt should not be attempting this. While at the same time I will say that if you have done this method, I congratulate you and will ooggle all of the pictures you have, as for me I am not smart enough to do that type of thing. Just don't think you get into that type of tank management because it is cheaper. If you know what you are doing--yes, it can be cheaper. Otherwise you wind up with one expensive mess on your hands.

Just my 2 cents worth

Anne

 

[fishcrazy]

I'm assuming you are speaking of Robert Stark of ESV in New York (pp 52~54 in Paletta's book). Most people want more than 4 small fish when they have a 120g tank but if that's what you want, more power to you. I do want to point out what he lists as a negative in the book...

While such a simple system can result in a beautiful reef tank, it is limited as far as the number of fish that can be maintained due to the lack of an export mechanism (skimmer, algae filter, etc.) and a gas exchange device (aeration, skimmer, wet/dry filter, or reverse/daylight algae filter). Reef aquarists who desire large fish populations should seriously consider adding one of these peripheral devices).