ich in the reef tank help please .

razz

Member
probably asked a 1000 times but i need some answers..i caught a fish 4 month back (racoon) to eat the astasia anemones that started popping up..the fish died of ich and ever since ive been unable to put any new fish in my tank with-out them catching the ich .the original clown and damsels which are like 10 years old have to problem with the ich just the newer fish i try adding..i need a tang but wont kill another till the problem is solved..now ive read that neon gobbies eat the ich but will they catch the ich like the other fish and die or are they somehow ammune >? i allready have 2 cleaner shrimps helping out any ideas what else i might do>?
ty
 

Frans

Member
You may want to read through my wife’s post regarding our Chevron and Sailfin Tang. She documents everything.... including our battle with ick

You should also know that based upon my research and experience nothing eats ick. Actually several texts will actual tells you it’s in every system and is just waiting for a sick or weak fish to be introduced into our system. So with that said what I can tell you is what appears to be working for us. Please remember each system is unique and what works for one system may not work on yours. There are just to many variables.

Here’s an abbreviated version of what appears to be working for us:

We added a UV Sterilizer.
Increased our flow rate by adding an additional power head.
Performed frequent water changes.
Reduced lighting. This reduces the amount of stress for new fish only.
Add “KENT” Garlic Xtreame to our feedings.
Added “Selcon Concentrate” vitamin C and B12 to our feedings.

As you can tell we did not take a scientific approach. You should always, if at all possible, adjust one thing at a time and give it ampoule time to stabilize before take a shoot gun approach.

First we added a UV sterilizer. There’s a LOT of opinions. Most will agree that it kills bacteria and algae, both good and bad. Based upon this limited knowledge we choose to add one to our system and run it 24/7 until all signs of ick were gone. I would not recommend this for a healthy system, but we were convinced that we were going to loose a lot of fish. Now that it appears to be under control we plan on reducing this time greatly. We also performed a frequent water changes along with greatly enriching the food we feed to our fish. Healthy fish are happy fish. The one thing that also seamed to help the most was reducing the amount of time in which we illuminated our tanks. Since both fish were new, we believe, reducing lighting equals less stress.

Best of luck….
 

razz

Member
ty very much for the input..so far im on the same trail as you..i did a water change this morning and bid on a uv sterilizer on ebay yesterday..now with my new carpey anemone the light cant be lessoned so i cant do that but i might try using a more variety of foods also..thanx again
 

cheeks69

Wannabe Guru
RS STAFF
Cryptocaryon irritans aka Marine Ich isn't always in the tank, it must be introduced by an infected fish and the only way to completely eliminate it is to move your fish to a Quarantine tank and treat with copper or hyposalinity and leave the main tank fallow or fish free for a minimum of 4-6 weeks.

the fish died of ich and ever since ive been unable to put any new fish in my tank with-out them catching the ich .the original clown and damsels which are like 10 years old have to problem with the ich just the newer fish i try adding

Usually the first fish to show symptoms are the one's under stress and usually new additions are under severe stress {netting,trasnportation, aggression from established fish etc.} This does not mean that established fish don't get infections but may have developed immunity to the parasite.

now ive read that neon gobbies eat the ich but will they catch the ich like the other fish and die or are they somehow ammune

No they aren't immune and often will also die from infection so the only sure way to eliminate the parasite is to remove the hosts.
 

mps9506

Well-Known Member
Agree with cheeks, I would leave your tank fishless for 4 weeks and place your current fish in a q tank with no substrate until then.
 

slb11106

Member
i know alot of people will not agree, but i had a bad case of ICH and i was ready to go purchase a qt tank (which i should have had already) but, before spending lots of cash i tried "kick ICH " and i went through one gallon over a 5 day period and the ich was gone and it has been 4 months now...

i am not a believer of quick fix's but i tried this and was amazed.....did not affect my corals or shrimp, crabs, nothing...but the ICH is gone and stayed gone.

against popular views, it worked and cost me 12.00

scott
 

JaxReef

Member
ozone helps with Ich also, but what I have read it only kills ich in the free swimming stages. Not sure if this helps you or not. Good luck- don't give up
 

cheeks69

Wannabe Guru
RS STAFF
slb11106 said:
i know alot of people will not agree, but i had a bad case of ICH and i was ready to go purchase a qt tank (which i should have had already) but, before spending lots of cash i tried "kick ICH " and i went through one gallon over a 5 day period and the ich was gone and it has been 4 months now...

i am not a believer of quick fix's but i tried this and was amazed.....did not affect my corals or shrimp, crabs, nothing...but the ICH is gone and stayed gone.

against popular views, it worked and cost me 12.00

scott

Copper is the most powerful medication and it still takes 4 weeks to eliminate the parasite. Although your fish may appear to have kicked the ich I believe your tank continues to carry the parasite, the only sure way to know would be to suddenly drop the temp 3-4 degrees and see if the infection reappears.
 

slb11106

Member
yes i agree, and i did that, i droped the temp from 81.4 to 78 (not on purpose, i had a heater malfunction) and it was like that for 24 hrs and all is well, maybe it was just a fluke thing, dont know. having said all that, i was also feeding medicated food for 30 days or so and garlic (dont know if that does anything)

and yes i have heard that copper is the only way to be sure, but life is good in my tank and that makes me happy
 

billyr98

Well-Known Member
When i set up my tank.. i also had an ich breakout.... I added the Kick Ick also... it worked for me... Then I added a UV and added garlic daily to my food feeding..
 

sasquatch

Brunt of all Jokes~
PREMIUM
Cheeks69 could you possibly explain the temp drop thing? this is a new one to me. Thanks Sas.
 

cheeks69

Wannabe Guru
RS STAFF
sasquatch said:
Cheeks69 could you possibly explain the temp drop thing? this is a new one to me. Thanks Sas.

A sudden drstic drop in temperature will affect a fishes' immune system and if he's carrying the parasite you'll usually notice right away the white spots.
 

sasquatch

Brunt of all Jokes~
PREMIUM
LOL Robert, I kinda guessed it was something like that,it was late for me and I was a little fuddled.cheers
 

mps9506

Well-Known Member
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm
From above link:
Many products, chemicals have been advanced as being efficacious in treating for Crypt, some in combination with others. In general the more effective treatments are more potentially toxic... all are and their mis-use is likely more a source of mortality than the actual parasites they're being used to eliminate. Be aware that there are a few commercial "reef safe" remedies (pepper-sauce, garlic...) on the market that are unreliable to put it mildly. Rather than saving fish lives these persistent "cures" kill-off hobbyists by the droves. Avoid them by getting on the internet, converse with fellow hobbyists re what works and doesn't.

Temperature effects. As with freshwater ich, it's advised to raise your systems temperature to speed up the life cycle of Crypt while you're treating for it. If your livestock can handle it, increase your heating to the mid 80's F along with whatever other treatment regimen you employ.

A) Hyposalinity, lowered specific gravity. Some advocates place lower spg. as low as 1.009. This can work if your fishes are not too challenged already or the pathogen too virulent, however it will not effect a permanent system cure. Know that most common measures of specific gravity are temperature specific and that most non-fish livestock will not tolerate the lower limit (14-16 ppt salinity) necessary to kill off the parasites. Therefore your fishes will have to be separated from your non-fish livestock if you're using hyposalinity as a treatment mode. And there are exceptions, variations to consider using hyposalinity. Cartilaginous fishes (sharks, rays) cannot be treated in this fashion... and such osmotic changes need to be made gradually (over days).

B) Ionic copper solutions, chelated and not. Copper is an old-timey, but proven method of eliminating Cryptocaryon. Solutions come in two varieties, bound up with a "carrier" molecule (chelated) and "free" (as in copper sulfate solutions). Both types have their benefits and shortcomings. Chelated copper "lasts longer" in marine water, cutting down the frequency of administration, whereas free copper is more available, readily effective. Note that you need to have/use a test kit for either type of copper used and that they are different test kits. Whichever format of copper is utilized it should be tested for and if necessary added to twice or more often daily. Often testing, adjusting copper levels assures that a "physiological dose", sufficient concentration (0.15-0.25 ppm over 7-10 days plus) of cupric ion is present to kill the tomite/theront stages.

C) Metronidazole (aka Flagyl), Quinacrine Hydrochloride, Quinine Sulfate. Not effective consistently.

D) Formalin or formalin/malachite or formalin/copper mixtures. Can be useful for initial infestations, treating large numbers of specimens, but the biocide formalin is dangerously toxic in the hands of the uninitiated. If used, shy on the low concentration, utilize extra aeration/circulation and closely watch your fishes and biological filtration.

E) Various schemes at moving infected fishes to new quarantine/treatment tanks, and vacuuming either bare-bottomed or systems with substrates: These approaches hope to capitalize on timing to eliminate intermediate forms of Crypt. Can be successful, but requires timeliness, effort on your part.

The Real Deal: Treating Fishes in Isolation, Allowing the Main System to "Go Fallow"

There are no "reef-safe" and effective treatments for crypt. NONE. Curing infested fishes involves separating them from non-fish livestock and treating them in that other system (or alternatively moving the non-fish livestock). Infested systems can be made "crypt-free" or better "crypt-virulence-reduced" by having them kept free of fish hosts for several (4 or more) weeks without fishes. If practical, elevating temperatures and possibly lowering specific gravity (to the tolerance of other non-fish livestock) can be employed to "speed up" the loss of virulence of the parasites. In practical terms we are generally talking the low to mid 80's F. and 1.017-1.018... with these values adjusted over days time. Care must be exercised in not possibly transmitting disease organisms from the quarantine system... on nets, containers, hands... anything wet, and drying, otherwise sterilizing quarantine tanks and gear between uses.

About Ultraviolet Sterilizers:

UV's cannot effect an actual "cure", though they do seem to do so in some cases where slight improvement in the overall system water quality may tip the balance between health/disease in the fishes side. Otherwise UV use can significantly reduce the number of free-swimming tomites. An initially improved situation is often perceived in initial infestations with a synchronized population of adults cycling off their hosts (every 3 to 7 days)... only to resurface in great numbers due to the confines of captivity.
 
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