I am setting up a 30 gallon breeder tank as a reef tank soon. I plan to hopefully have some pretty serious corals in it, clams, feather dusters, and fish (semi-onyx misbarred clowns, mandarins, and idk what else yet). I want to run as much filtration as possible through the tank, but idk if there is a limit. I think I have heard somewhere that too much filtration is bad. I am thinking of doing a small canister filter with built in UV sterilizer as well as an AquaClear 50 or 70 HOB filter. So here is the question: How much filtration is too much filtration?
How much filtration is too much?
- Thread starter ishharris
- Start date
Clonefarmer
Member
You really don't need all that filtration on a reef tank. In a reef tank the LR and protein skimmer do all the work. The LR acts as a biological filter while the protein skimmer removes waste before it has a chance to break down. Some systems also incorporate refugiums or deep sand beds to aid in Nitrate reduction.
A canister filter does a great job at filtering, but it also can create allot of Nitrate. Nitrate is not harmful in fish only systems, but in a reef tank it can harm corals and inverts.
IMO UV sterilizers are not worth running. The money spent on one is better put towards a quality skimmer.
I don't run any filtration on my tank other than a skimmer and it's always crystal clear.
One last thing. Please research the Mandarin first. They are hard to keep and tend to only eat live food. I'd Like To Keep A Mandarin - By Marc Levenson
A canister filter does a great job at filtering, but it also can create allot of Nitrate. Nitrate is not harmful in fish only systems, but in a reef tank it can harm corals and inverts.
IMO UV sterilizers are not worth running. The money spent on one is better put towards a quality skimmer.
I don't run any filtration on my tank other than a skimmer and it's always crystal clear.
One last thing. Please research the Mandarin first. They are hard to keep and tend to only eat live food. I'd Like To Keep A Mandarin - By Marc Levenson
Uslanja
Active Member
Our experience is quite simple. Food that is added to the tank needs to be eaten by the inhabitants and whatever isn't needs to be removed. We feed frozen to our larger animals and phyto to the smaller animals and filter feeders. Unless a tank is run real close to starvation levels thereby ensuring that all food is consumed, the failure to remove it results in decay and pollution. We run live sand and live rock to contend with the biological waste from our animals however the food waste is removed via filtration. We utilize canister filters. We also utilize filter socks. We siphon sump bottoms and into corners to remove debris. We disassemble and clean pumps, plumping and hoses.
This is a point that I hope you will allow me to use your question to address.
We keep all of our filtration systems clean on a very regimented schedule. Regardless of the term "Hobby", these are live animals and they need us to care for them. This is not stamp collecting where you can do it later. When conditions dictate our intervention, then it means; NOW. So regardless of what filtration system is used, it must be maintained on our tank's schedule, not ours!! Any filtration system must be kept clean. There is no more nitrate production from a dirty canister filter than there is from a dirty sock, sump or sand bed. A person has an aquarium and they keep parameters in balance, feed it corretly and keep it clean or it becomes something other than what they envision!
But in answer to your question; too much filtration will occur when essential trace elements and nutrients are being removed from the system and not being replenished in a timely or adequate fashion. That is where testing, monitoring and experience come into play.
There are "Many roads to Rome" and in that vein as many successful tanks and ways of doing them as there are people with independent logic, reasoning and ideas. And all of these different ways are good! The great part about being part of Reef Sanctuary is we all get to share them!
There is no tried and true solid recipe for success, whatever system a person sets up will inevitably require them to learn more about what is happening in their tank and adjust things accordingly. That is probably why so many of us have so many spare pieces and parts in a box; "Continual process improvement"!
This is a point that I hope you will allow me to use your question to address.
We keep all of our filtration systems clean on a very regimented schedule. Regardless of the term "Hobby", these are live animals and they need us to care for them. This is not stamp collecting where you can do it later. When conditions dictate our intervention, then it means; NOW. So regardless of what filtration system is used, it must be maintained on our tank's schedule, not ours!! Any filtration system must be kept clean. There is no more nitrate production from a dirty canister filter than there is from a dirty sock, sump or sand bed. A person has an aquarium and they keep parameters in balance, feed it corretly and keep it clean or it becomes something other than what they envision!
But in answer to your question; too much filtration will occur when essential trace elements and nutrients are being removed from the system and not being replenished in a timely or adequate fashion. That is where testing, monitoring and experience come into play.
There are "Many roads to Rome" and in that vein as many successful tanks and ways of doing them as there are people with independent logic, reasoning and ideas. And all of these different ways are good! The great part about being part of Reef Sanctuary is we all get to share them!
There is no tried and true solid recipe for success, whatever system a person sets up will inevitably require them to learn more about what is happening in their tank and adjust things accordingly. That is probably why so many of us have so many spare pieces and parts in a box; "Continual process improvement"!
Great question, filtration should be able to manage the bio load of fish and waste products, live rock does a pretty good job at conversion of toxic substances, the main issue is the ever increasing acid load in our tanks produced by waste, every live item in a tank produces something that rots, corals have mucus,live rock sheds, fish go potty, we add food, then all the bacterial die off etc, I think each type of filtration has its purpose and if properly attended to will go a long way to stave off the acids that lower ph and make buffering hard to maintain, to leave out very regular water changes as a form of filtration would be a mistake and the nice thing about a 30 gal tank is water changes cost peanuts.
I think I have decided on the filtration I want to use. I think I am going to use a Subcurrent Surface Skimmer as well as a protein skimmer in the tank. That will alow me to knock out the filter and a power head in one purchase. It is also easy to change the filter media out so I can experiment some and figure out exactly what filter media combination works best for me. What do you think?
Uslanja
Active Member
We have never used one of those, but it looks like you could get it to work pretty good. One of the things that looks nice about that filter is the ability to keep the water surface clean. Another thing that you might want to consider is to ensure that you have good flow throughout your tank. With good flow and surface skimming you should be able to keep particulate in suspension long enough for most of it to get picked up by the surface skimmer/filter. As well, the flow will help to ensure minimum dead spots in the tank and help prevent detritus build up in difficult to reach areas. We take advantage of our filters ability to remove particulate from the water column with a filter material but we do not use any type of medium that has any chemicals impregnated in it. We rely on our live rock and live sand for the biological component. We clean our filters every third and then every fourth day. That lines us up with an every seventh day water change. Routine water changes for us are 10% but if parameters are starting to go off a bit we have no hesitation to increase the amount and frequency of water changes to get things back in line. Protein skimming is just an accepted and good for the tank component. One more item that is reasonably priced that you may wish to have handy is a phosphate reactor. Many different materials such as phosban, purigen or activated carbon can be effectively used in it when needed. Sounds like your putting the right pieces in place to design an effective system for your style of doing things!! Let us know how its working out.
I will most certainly keep you and everyone else updated on this setup. I will try to create a thread of my week to week updates. This will be my 7th tank, but the first one I have spent A LOT of time on and put a lot of effort into. my other tanks are all pretty basic, or either I bought them already setup, so I had to no real work. I have a 30, a 37, a 90, and 2 20 gallon FOWLR systems as well as a 20 long reef tank currently. I plan to make this 30 breeder into my baby. I want to throw everything I have into this tank and make it look spectacular and amazing. It will be my show off tank in some ways. Not that I don't LOVE all of my tanks equally. I have some VERY VERY nice fish in each tank, and I am very proud of all that I have "created."
So far I have everything figured out for this 30 breeder tank except for the light. I am having a hard time finding one I can afford, I may unfortunately have to go with a cheap Odyssea light. I already ave 2 and they seem to do pretty well on my other tanks. I am thinking a 36" 4 bulb T5 unit with which I add in several retro-fitted LEDs for my moonlight. I want the tank to really shine at night.
So far I have everything figured out for this 30 breeder tank except for the light. I am having a hard time finding one I can afford, I may unfortunately have to go with a cheap Odyssea light. I already ave 2 and they seem to do pretty well on my other tanks. I am thinking a 36" 4 bulb T5 unit with which I add in several retro-fitted LEDs for my moonlight. I want the tank to really shine at night.
Uslanja
Active Member
Hi ishharris! Sounds good. Lighting is brutally expensive, as is a good sump, skimmer and reactor setup, and those things sure do make keeping a tank easier, however there are other ways to accomplish the same tasks. But when it comes to lighting, I would most likely suggest that you find a way to get a system that meets your needs right from the start if at all possible. We have tried lower end lighting solutions, then doing some modifications to them and then eventually just plunking down the cash and getting what we needed. And now the other lights that we purchased are sitting in the back room in boxes. They might come in handy on a fish only tank or in an emergency. We have become fans of AquaticLife fixtures. There are many different brands of lighting and as many proponents of each, but we would encourage you to take a look at the 4 bulb T5 with lunar blue lights from AquaticLife. The build is excellent, the customer service is as good as it gets and the built in timers make everything so easy to configure and run. We love our AquaticLife fixture. If you can swing it, you won't be disappointed!! If you are serious about clams, then you will need some serious lighting, maybe even a Metal Halide. There are some very experienced folks here that can help you with clams and lighting. You might want to throw a few questions up in the "Tridacnid Clams" forum to get a better idea about their lighting requirements. The other creatures that you have mentioned can survive with lower lighting no problem. Tracy and I are really looking forward to following along and enjoying your build!!
Clonefarmer
Member
So far I have everything figured out for this 30 breeder tank except for the light. I am having a hard time finding one I can afford, I may unfortunately have to go with a cheap Odyssea light. I already ave 2 and they seem to do pretty well on my other tanks. I am thinking a 36" 4 bulb T5 unit with which I add in several retro-fitted LEDs for my moonlight. I want the tank to really shine at night.
The cheaper light fixture work ok. Changing the stock bulbs for some high quality bulbs like ATI will make a big difference.
I'm not sure how much flow that set up will give you, but usually a couple powerheads are needed to provide enough turbulent flow.
I actually already have one clam. He is under a 130watt CF fixture in a 20 long tank. I have actually been looking into the AquaticLife linkable fixtures. I could start out with buying 2 fixtures and linking them together to form a 4 bulb, then in the future buy one more to convert up to a 6 bulb. I think that is my best option right now. Maybe even just start with 1 unit, and get all my fish and stuff first. Then each pay check I could buy one more linkable fixture and a few corals.
