Hooray for Ontario Liberals!

[DICK]

Bossie at the market is ALREADY dead, I would have to GO and kill Bambi. And you think that I belive you hunted Elk only because you like the meat? Not because you got a kick out of shooting it?

 

[mojoreef]

Alright folks let keep the conversation going but lose a little bit of the emotion, Everyone has the right to thier opinion and beliefs. Its all good and it usually ain't going to change

Thanks for working with us

Mike

 

[BoomerD]

Mojo, Dick & I have already exchanged peace messages. Nuff said.
As I said in my original reply to this post, it's a touchy subject for many people.

 

[Gina]

I used to be dead (pardon pun) set against hunting. I personally would not do it. I find it hard to kill something. But, I do remember once seeing a documentary about Ted Nugent and in it he said"you have to kill it before you grill it" which made me think gee the meat I get at the grocery was really a live animal once. I have to admit I love steak and other meats. If, you eat what you kill and just don't do it for sport then do it. You have to admit that if we didn't have hunting season alot of animals would probably starve to death eventually. I read once that there are more deer killed each year from being hit by a car that are ever killed by a gun. Anyway, just my 2 cents.

 

[BoomerD]

Thank you Gina.

 

[Cougra]

Originally posted by Montanareefer
What I got out of all this reading was how many black bears you guys have up there? That really surprised me!

I am with witfull and should have a regulated hunt!

MOnatanareefer:

Here is a bit more information on the number of Blackbears in Canada if you are interested:

Black bears are typically North American animals. Their population is estimated at over 450,000 in Canada alone. Black bears live in almost all kind of habitats, from the dense southern forests to the northern arctic tundra. The average weight of a mature black bear goes anywhere from 200 to 450 pounds, although some trophies weigh over 500 pounds. In the wild, black bears can live up to 15 years. The sow has a very low reproduction cycle, and gives birth to 1 or 2 - sometimes 3 - cubs once every 2 years.

American black bear populations appear to be stable or increasing across most of their North American range. It is estimated black bear population in the United States grew by some 25 to 35 percent during the past 15 years, from roughly 300,000 in 1988 to an estimated 450,000 in the mid-1990s. During the same overall period, Canada's black bear population estimate increased from approx. 380,000 to 450,000. Black bear populations in Mexico remain difficult to assess because of the lack of available data...
...Today upwards of 800,000 black bears inhabit North America with most still found in Alaska and Canada. Huntable numbers abide in about half of the states.

Info found HERE

 

[mojoreef]

Mojo, Dick & I have already exchanged peace messages. Nuff said.

I knew you guys would, Thanks


Mike

 

[Montanareefer]

Thanks Cougra on the black bear info. Still amazing how many there really are!

 

[Craig Manoukian]

That's a lame excuse to get you're thrills by shooting animals in their habitat. ... bringing back pictures kneeling beside a dead full grown deer is NOT a display of accomplishment or pride!

Come on, let's face the facts, meat is dead animals, that used to be live animals. Where's the difference between bossie the cow, and bambi?

Let's play nice as this boarders on an attack or flame chord. You can't paint everyone with the same brush in a sweeping statement. Please, let's keep our emotions in check.

Good points and discussion everyone!

:smirk:

Posted before reading to the bottom and seeing mojoreef already moderated - an additional reminder non the less

 

[Gina]

I think everyone needs to keep in mind that we all have our own personal views re: life. An easy way for me to post is just to say "personally, I couldn't" But, that's just me. I would not ever tell someone they are wrong or bad because they could. Hunting has been around since the very beginning. It's just now, we have slaughter houses to do our job. I know someone who once told me that he was out hunting and sitting in his tree and the biggest buck he ever saw came walking up. He said that he had never seen one that looked so regal. He counted his points as 12. He let that animal go in hopes that he would populate the area with his genes. He told me alot of hunters will do that. I gained alot of respect for him at that moment. I always thought that was the goal..to get the biggest rack possibly. I don't care for threads that really start getting nasty. Once I see that I will usually leave the thread at that time. We have a right for our own opinion but, shouldn't hurt someone else for theirs.

 

[DICK]

Craig and Gina, like BommerD stated earlier, we are buddies again. No hard feelings.
Happy Holidays!!!

 

[mwrager]

Thanks Cougra for the info, everyone I know uses 100% of every animal that we harvest. Even the feet. We give the to a Native American Tribe. They use them. I guess the only thing we don’t use is the guts. Yes the people that only hunt for the trophies does make me upset. But they still do a service for nature.

 

[ScottT1980]

I have steered clear of this thread by my controversial comments in another thread...

I think the Native Americans had it right in regards to their treatment of a "kill." THey showed respect and gave thanks to the animal that has provided them a couple more weeks without starvation. Of course, times are quite different now but you get the idea...

I come from a very "machisimo" family of BIG hunters and in my childhood, I hunted quite a bit. These days, I go very rarely and to be honest, I do not really enjoy it. However, with me, there is some sort of monetary importance to hunting. I make VERY little money and so I venison or turkey or dove/quail meat is always in my freezer. With the price of beef these days and my very minimal graduate school income, this is a good way to save money (plus, I like the way it tastes).

I think hunting can be done in as ethical a fashion as killing a cow in the slaughterhouse (which I have unfortunatly had to go to almost once a month for the past year and a half). I do know hunters that hunt only for that trophey but almost all I know are really upset if the kill is not "clean."

As far as it being more humane than what goes on in nature, well, I guess that involves a bit of anthropomorphication. In fact, I have heard different points of view from different biologists (and some philosphers) on the matter and the argument pretty much falls in line with this discussion here on RS.

A interesting philosophical argument that is always made (and a valid one) is to hypothetically assume that a higher lifeform from a different planet landed on earth and began to "harvest" the inferior humans as food. While the gaps in this argument are fairly obvious, it does make a pretty good point.

Interesting that this topic also appeared in my Vet school application a couple of years ago. To preface, it essentially asked how I (or any vet) can justify helping to preserve the life of client A's poodle while also helping out the beef, pork, and poultry industries. Again, you can see the obvious "loopholes" in the question but the underlying philosophy behind the question really is tough...

Just some thoughts...

Take er easy
Scott T.

 

[Craig Manoukian]

There is nothing humane about death in nature. Just look at the way a dominate fish will pick to death another fish. Shredding it's fins and slowly bludgeoning it to death.

I won't go into any other details but the animal kingdom is a very violent place. Where we get confused is when we try to humanize the animals around us, just can't be done. Why do fish flee with such vigor when they are diseased or injured and we are just trying to catch them for their own good?

:smirk:

 

[jupiter]

Originally posted by Craig Manoukian
There is nothing humane about death in nature. Just look at the way a dominate fish will pick to death another fish. Shredding it's fins and slowly bludgeoning it to death.

Absolutely. Nature is not humane. That is because only man has the capacity to be humane.

I won't go into any other details but the animal kingdom is a very violent place. Where we get confused is when we try to humanize the animals around us, just can't be done.

Absolutely. Being humans gives us the ability to understand that cruelty is wrong. We are "the moral animal".

Why do fish flee with such vigor when they are diseased or injured and we are just trying to catch them for their own good?

The answer is very simple:

Where we get confused is when we try to humanize the animals around us, just can't be done.

We can't humanize fishes. Fishes don't have the civil human understanding of medicine or health care. Man would flee as well if he didn't understand your hand was meant to help rather than harm.