Nobody said anything about live rock or live sand instantly cyling water. The quesion was why or how will water changes cause a cycle? The bacteria don't heavily populate the water, how will changing it start a cycle?
Help with ammonia
- Thread starter ViperDoug
- Start date
Nobody said anything about live rock or live sand instantly cyling water. The quesion was why or how will water changes cause a cycle? The bacteria don't heavily populate the water, how will changing it start a cycle?
BLADEYAMAHA
Well-Known Member
IMO you don't have too many fish. Is something dead in there? I'm at a loss at what to say too, unless you are not using carbon, or you have not been changing it, but with age of the tank and the amount of live rock, without carbon you should almost be fine unless you do not have a refugium. I guess it is possible if you are not running carbon in a media reactor, and the protein skimmer is on the fritz, there is a call for the ammonia spike.
Have you been doing you weekly 10% water changes with RO or RO/DI water?
Have you been doing you weekly 10% water changes with RO or RO/DI water?
BLADEYAMAHA
Well-Known Member
You obviously did not understand my post then so I will reiterate "if you do too many water changes(and I meant with water change water that is freshly mixed) in short period of time, there will be a cycle in the tank.
Unless everything is fully grown I don't think your overstocked. As Adam said your bio filter is broken...but why. Have you had any coral (or anything) die? Just for anyone following along...it would have been better to address this when ammonia levels were low. Ammonia should be 0 at all times once the cycle is complete. Any ammonia is an indicator of an insufficient bio filter. Ammonia should be converted by the bio filter very quickly so that the level is always measured at 0.
carbon doesn't last long, but I doubt that's causing the ammonia. I change mine every 2-3 weeks.
Is there anyway to remove the livestock so you can cycle the tank?
I understood your post perfectly, I don't agree with it, and I'm asking you to explain why water changes will cause a cycle, so that if you are correct I can understand it. Simply making the same statement again does nothing to support why what you say is true. From everything I know, there is no reason why frequent water changes should start a new cycle.
Anselth
Well-Known Member
I don't think water changes will cause a cycle, this is the first I've heard of that. What they can do is prolong one. When your basic cycle starts, ammonia spikes. The ammonia reducing bacteria population expands to get rid of it, causing nitrite to spike. The Nitrite reducing bacteria population grows, nitrite concentrations decrease, and nitrate concentrations increase. If you do a water change in the middle of a cycle, you deprive these bacteria of food and it takes longer for the population to build up.
Doug, I'd say you have a combination of a bit of overstocking EDIT: when fully grown (~25 inches of fish, and tangs can be messy) coupled with maybe a little too little live rock. I shoot for 1.25-1.5 pounds per gallon, depending on porosity. More porous rock requires less. As for the carbon, it's good to change it out every month. I don't know that it's done as soon as it goes in, but it can trap detritus and other junk, lust like any other filter media.
Doug, I'd say you have a combination of a bit of overstocking EDIT: when fully grown (~25 inches of fish, and tangs can be messy) coupled with maybe a little too little live rock. I shoot for 1.25-1.5 pounds per gallon, depending on porosity. More porous rock requires less. As for the carbon, it's good to change it out every month. I don't know that it's done as soon as it goes in, but it can trap detritus and other junk, lust like any other filter media.
BLADEYAMAHA
Well-Known Member
Hey viperdoug did you find any Seachem Stability?
I have been addressing this for the last month. Like I said, I have been having trouble getting rid of it and thought it was going in the right direction until this morning. I do have a QT tank that I could move the livestock to bu tto be honest, Iwould need to empty all the live rock to catch these fish. I had to quarantine a fish a while back that was sick and it was the biggest nihgtmare trying to catch that thing. Since this problem started I have lost about 4 corals. I have a couple in there right now that don't look great. I wonder if that is causing the issue with the spike in ammonia. Like I said, I am having the hardest time trying to figure out what is causing this problem and usually the problem becomes evident. This time...not so much. I plan on changing the carbon today.
Anselth
Well-Known Member
Your best bet is to move your animals into quarantine and address the biological filter. If this has been going on for a month, I'd suggest that it's due to too little filtration - add more cured rock to the system after you remove the fish and corals. Test the water but don't do a change. Test and change the QT water on a daily basis, if necessary, as without a biological filter a QT system will build ammonia quickly. Once your ammonia goes back to zero, drop a couple uncooked shrimp in the system in a media bag (for ease of removal) and test again. If the ammonia doesn't show up over a couple of days, you should be good.
I calle dmy LFS to inquire about the Seachem Stability. He does have it and I explained to him what was going on. He said it doesn't make sense that the ammonia is that high and the fish are swimming around fine. I told him ( and I should have mentioned this earlier) that when I tested the ammonia last evening and it showed up with a small amount that I installed AmmoLock by API. He said that the AmmoLock will cause a false positive reading and that is what is most likely going on. He said to continue doing water changes every few days for the next week or so and it should go away.
The necrotic tissue, from the dying coral would deffinitely cause an increase in ammonia. Remove them ASAP. We always want to give everything a fighting chance, but this is a case where it could bring eveything down with it.
BLADEYAMAHA
Well-Known Member
Good to hear about the Ammo Lock and false numbers, and once again I'm not talking about frequent water changes, I am talking about back to back constant water changes to try and correct an ammonia problem, like changing out over 75% of your tanks water.
I cannot wait to get this tank back under control like it used to be. I really appreciate everyone helping me out this morning. The worst part is the loss that has happened among the corals over this. I have to accept this as a possibilty when owning a reef tank. Like someone elses signature on here says "all of our tanks are constantly on the verge of collapse".
BLADEYAMAHA
Well-Known Member
This is just one example of many on the internet of wrong things to do with water changes: if you're new to fish keeping and dont understand "cycling" i strongly suggest you read this: Tips for Cycling Your New Aquarium - The First Tank Guide - Getting Your Fish Tank Up and Running with Minimal Headaches <= this also has a lot of good information that you can benefit from.
but to answer your question: you want to avoid doing 100% water change bc the abrupt change will be stressful for the fish and they'll be prone to sickness, which may lead to death.
i suggest you invest in a siphon tube/vacuum. you can find some for less than $5 and you just suck up all that gunk at the bottom along with some water so at the same time you're "vacuuming" you can get that 25% water change taken care of! =)
also, i would suggest you give your fish less food during feeding. just enough that they will eat so that the water doesnt get dirtied as fast, plus, you save food!
Source(s):
experience, i wish someone sent me that link before or i at least did my research before i got my fish. RIP fish...i got new fish afterwards tho and they're living well tho =)
but to answer your question: you want to avoid doing 100% water change bc the abrupt change will be stressful for the fish and they'll be prone to sickness, which may lead to death.
i suggest you invest in a siphon tube/vacuum. you can find some for less than $5 and you just suck up all that gunk at the bottom along with some water so at the same time you're "vacuuming" you can get that 25% water change taken care of! =)
also, i would suggest you give your fish less food during feeding. just enough that they will eat so that the water doesnt get dirtied as fast, plus, you save food!
Source(s):
experience, i wish someone sent me that link before or i at least did my research before i got my fish. RIP fish...i got new fish afterwards tho and they're living well tho =)
Changing water frequently or in large amounts will NOT cause a cycle.
From experience I can tell you this. I did 60% water changes per week for a year and never had the slightest increase in ammonia or any changes. I have done 98% water changes and still no evidence of a cycle. I have done 50% water changes every day for a week straight, and guess what, no cycle at all.
Yes, if you change large amounts of water you better have all your parameters matching or you can cause multiple problems and death which then will cause an increase of ammonia and lead to.a cycle.
When I cure live rock I will not change any water till the cycle is done. And then I will remove all the water and rinse the rock with saltwater, refill the container with new water and purposly foul the water with ammonia to check and see if the live rock is ready to go. Do another 100% water change.
Very little bacteria is in the water column. It is mainly in and on the live rock, hense the name, and sand.
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From experience I can tell you this. I did 60% water changes per week for a year and never had the slightest increase in ammonia or any changes. I have done 98% water changes and still no evidence of a cycle. I have done 50% water changes every day for a week straight, and guess what, no cycle at all.
Yes, if you change large amounts of water you better have all your parameters matching or you can cause multiple problems and death which then will cause an increase of ammonia and lead to.a cycle.
When I cure live rock I will not change any water till the cycle is done. And then I will remove all the water and rinse the rock with saltwater, refill the container with new water and purposly foul the water with ammonia to check and see if the live rock is ready to go. Do another 100% water change.
Very little bacteria is in the water column. It is mainly in and on the live rock, hense the name, and sand.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
I'm sorry but that link you posted is what we do not want people to do.
1) it is refering to fw which is similar.
2) it refers to using fish to cycle ( poor fish)
3) it says to do multiple water changes during the cycle which will extend the cycle and reduce the bacterial populations.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
1) it is refering to fw which is similar.
2) it refers to using fish to cycle ( poor fish)
3) it says to do multiple water changes during the cycle which will extend the cycle and reduce the bacterial populations.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk