HELP! Red Bugs!

BigReepher

Active Member
I got red bugs. I'm past panic, I'm wiggin. My favorite coral, the purple acro with green polyps is pretty much gone. They've started on my purple tipped tricolor now. What should I do? Should I do the heartworm dip, iodine dip, turkey baste the buggers off, pull the infected corals out of the tank, what should I do? Can someone point me in the right direction. Help! Please.
 

corvettephreek

Active Member
woah! got a pic of them? they might be some weird hitchhiker.... try the hitchhiker ID section of RS, there may be a picture there for you. good luck!!!
 

Palawanreefs

New Member
If it is red bugs the thread below has some nice pictures of it. One way to win the battle is to treat your whole tank with Intercetors, but be sure to get the right amount/gal of your tank. You have to follow up a 3 full treatment to irradicate all the eggs remaining. For proper doses you can ask people on RC and there is an info that Dustin have. If I find it I will link it here.
Good luck!
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5116
 

Warnberg

Well-Known Member
Red Bug Treatment:

The medication is a DOG heartworm medication called Interceptor, it is only available from a veterinarian with a prescription. The tablets used in the initial treatments were for large dogs, 51-100lbs. These tablets are just under 1 gram each and contain 23mg of Milbemycin Oxime, the rest of it is a lovely smelling beef flavor. This chemical is active against Nematodes (Heartworms in dogs) and select arthropods (some types of Mange in dogs). Luckily, our red bugs are one of those select arthropods. The tablets come 6 to a box.


Here is the official information from Novartis on the medication.
http://www.ah.novartis.com/products/en/cab/interceptor.shtml

Refer to this thread and read the whole thing before you begin the treatment.
http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=43945


The dosage used in an aquarium to kill redbugs is 25mg (0.025 grams) per 10 gallons of actual tank water . That is 25mg of the entire tablet. Each tablet in the pack of 6 will treat about 380 gallons. The tablets are ground with a mortar and pestle into a fine powder.

Do your very best to calculate your actual water volume. Take into consideration your sump, oversized plumbing and things like that. All of the initial tests were done with the estimated volume of live rock and live sand subtracted from the total gallons. You need to make sure that every part of the system that’s capable of holding water is treated. This means your refugium, the water inside your calcium reactor, the water inside your skimmer while it is not foaming.

Measure out the Interceptor on a very accurate scale that is capable of reading down to 0.001 grams. Remember, the dosage is 0.025grams per 10 gallons. For safety’s sake get as close as you possibly can. It has been pointed out that it may not be necessary to get down to the 1/1000th of a gram point when we are guessing on the actual water volume. This is an excellent point, however, since we are pretty much guessing our water volume, we should do our very best to make sure that we treat that guess accurately. We don’t want to over treat an over estimate.

Before adding the medication to your tank, turn off your skimmer (water needs to run through it, but you do not want it producing any bubbles. Remove any mechanical filtration if present. Remove any carbon if present. Turn off UV sterilizers and ozone generators.

Remove any shrimp or crabs that you want to save. They will have to stay out of the system for the duration of the treatment. Remember, that when you add them back to your tank, there is a slight chance that you will re-introduce the red bugs to your tank.

The medication is dissolved into some aquarium water (it is not easily soluble, you will have to stir for a while) and spread evenly across the surface of the water. Your tank should remain perfectly clear and look very normal the entire time. The bugs hang on well into the 4th and 5th hour of the treatment, dont be alarmed. Many of the bugs will hang on for days even after they are dead.

If anything goes wrong during treatment perform a water change ASAP and add a large amount of carbon to your system.

After 6 hours, a 25% MINIMUM water change is performed and as much activated carbon as you can fit should be added to the tank. In the initial tests, crustaceans that were reintroduced to a tank after a 25% water change and carbon were unaffected by the medication.
24 hours later the water should be changed again and the carbon replaced.
There is no maximum for the water changes or carbon, the more you do the better.

The treatment needs to be peformed a MINIMUM of 3 times. We know it kills the bugs, but we don’t know enough about their lifecycle to determine if it kills them at every stage of their life. We have to assume that all of the most of the adults are killed in the first treatment. The goal of the second treatment is to clean up any left over adults, and any juveniles that have hatched out of eggs that might have been unaffected. The third treatment is a “just in case” treatment, its goal is to get any bugs that could have possibly survived the first two. I know that three treatments sounds scary, after the first one you will feel much more comfortable with it though.

The frequency of the treatments has yet to be fully determined. Some of the volunteers in the testing did the first two treatments 7 days apart with the 3rd treatment 14 days after the second. Some did 3 treatments 7 days apart. Personally, I have been doing 2 treatments 24 hours apart every 7 days. I will repeat this 4 times for a total of 8 treatments.

The medication seems to be fairly safe, since we dont know the life cycle of the bug its best to err on the side of caution and treat several times. Pretend its an antibiotic, if your going to use it once, make sure you do the whole treatment process at least 3 times!!!


Refer to this thread and read the whole thing before you begin the treatment.
http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=43945


Some things to remember.

1. The ENTIRE system has to be treated. There could be bugs or bug larvae anywhere in your system. Do not take your refugium offline. Do not turn any part of your filtration off that will trap water. For example, if your skimmer is shut off, but has 1/2 gallon of water in it, that water needs to be treated!
2. You will probably kill off a lot of your pods, shrimps and crabs.
3. This medication has not been tested for very long. The bugs might come back. Like anything you put in your tank it could be toxic a year down the road.
4. The pills are for Large dogs, 50-100lbs. The dose is 25mg/10gal/6hrs.
5. If the treatment is not successful and you still have bugs visible after the 1st treatment, make a slight adjustment to your dose and start over again. This was only necessary in 1 out of 7 systems tested. It was a very old, large and intricate system.
6. I am sure, someone, somewhere will overdose or do something wrong. I am sure that someone will blame a tank crash 6 months down the road on this medication. Remember, no one but yourself is responsible for that!!!!!


Quarantine

I have not been able to come up with an effective, quick kill dipping strength. Even at 100x strength, the bugs lasted over 30 minutes. The best way to keep them from getting back in your tank is to treat the coral for the full 6 hours, an increased dose seems to be safe for corals. You are only going to be treating your new coral once. If the bug lays its eggs on the corals (no one knows) they could hatch off a week later in your aquarium.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Special thanks to Dustin Dortin at ORA for this.
For more information, please refer to his original thread
http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=439155#43915
 

SueT

Active Member
If you are sure it is the dreaded red bugs on your acropora then I would definitely treat your tank. I have had to do it on my 120g sps tank and have had very good results. I have only done 2 treatments and I even did these like 6 months apart. I had a very light infestation and the first treatment worked but still got some bad frags. As the treatment is in process you will see improvement.

Done right you'll be free of the bugs and then be careful with how you add future pieces. I dip them all now.
 

sharks

Contributing Member
I printed the article online and gave it to my vet. He was surprised at the connection to reef inverts and was very willing to give me the meds. I then took it to the local pharmacist and he weighted it out for me. He too was surprised at this treatment and started asking all sorts of newbie reef questions. I had to print the article for him too.

Anyway I treated twice. The first time it didn’t get them all. On the second dose I went heavy and they have been long gone now for many moths. Be prepared to say goodbye to most of your crabs but in the end it’s worth saving all the across.
Good luck
S
 

BigReepher

Active Member
Thanks everyone. Sounds like a PITA but not the end of my acros. I'm assuming it's fish safe and that I'll lose most of my gammarus spp. Is that correct? Thanks again everyone. I don't know where I'd be without the people of RS.
 

BigReepher

Active Member
I'm sorry for this, but I must vent.
Dr. Richard Selby here is your bad karma. Not only did you refuse to sell me one lousy interceptor pill or a prescription, but you refused to even listen to why I needed it. I'm glad Roscoe left that extra large dog present for you in your lobby. I called my vet, the one that many of my family members and I have gone to for years, Dr. Selby. Explained that I needed a prescription for interceptor or a single pill would do. When I said that I no longer had a dog, the conversation turned to "can't sell dog medication to someone without a dog". He wouldn't even listen to why I needed it, didn't care to hear that I had documention to explain it's use in aquariums. "Can't sell dog medication to someone without a dog". Can you tell I'm mad, I am. I may not have a dog, but many family members do. I'll be sure they don't go to Dr. Selby anymore. My new vet is the Shively Animal Clinic, they not only where gracious and courteous, they were interested and helpful in providing me with a tablet of interceptor for $3.15. Thanks
 

SueT

Active Member
Thats outrageous!! My vet. was so interested in why I was asking for this drug, he sat and listened to me explain what, why, how etc. Your vets' reaction seems totally weird. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

I have a local sps buddy that treated his tank way back when and when he went to his vet to get the interceptor his vert knew exactly why he wanted it. He even told him how he knew about red bugs in marine aquaria before everyone had the red bugs. And he wasn't even into saltwater.

Again his reaction was totally off base, I'm glad you got the stuff you needed and can treat your tank.
 

NaH2O

Contributing Member
Wow Nate - I'm glad you were able to find a clinic interested and willing to help. There are a few reefers that run into this....especially the ones without pets at all.

Here is another thread about them (Travis - remove if not allowed) - Eric Borneman posted some thoughts and submitted a couple of videos, in which you can see the little buggers munching on a coral. Hope it helps with further information, and let us know how your treatment goes! Red Bugs - Inevitable?
 

wooddood

the wood dude
interesting, my wife works at walgreens in the pharmacy so when she gets home i'll ask her to talk to the pharmachist and see what he has to say about this. i'll let ya know something tommorow, maybe it will help others out if they have the same problem.



dave. :smoking:
 

Gina

Moderator
RS STAFF
If you run into this problem again, shoot me a pm. I am a Veterinary Technician and have the ability to help you out. I got some for Reefer Addict last year.

Glad the other vet helped you out. Alot of Vets are very cautious about giving out prescription drugs without a patient/doctor relationship. You would be amazed at just what some people have ended up suing for. It's all about the legality issue.
 

BigReepher

Active Member
Hehe. That actually happened about 9 years ago when I had a cocker spaniel named Roscoe. He left three days worth of presents right in front of the front desk, after he had intruded on Roscoe's territory. If ya know what I'm sayin. I paid the lady as Roscoe left his thanks. I'll never forget looking back at that sight, thinking Wow Roscoe you sure showed him. Anyway enough of my rambling.

I picked up a tablet of Interceptor at the new vet. Only one problem, it's a 5.75mg tablet for smaller dogs. I am going to assume that this is basically just a forth of the larger 23mg tablets. I assume that my 5.75mg will treat a total of 95 gallons instead of the larger tablets 380 gallons. I really don't like to assume things, so I need a comforting confirmation. If this tablet weighs one forth of the larger tablets near gram then I know that it is indeed one forth of the larger tablets concentration. Thus the 0.025 per 10 gallons dosage will work. If the tablet doesn't weigh near 1/4 gram then I know the concentration is different and my dosage would have to be changed accordingly. Is this correct? Did I confuse you or myself? Just say yeah so I can blame you if something goes wrong.

P.S. Since I found out I had red bugs I haven't been able to get any bed bugs, which could explain my rhetoric.
 

KimPossible

Well-Known Member
Hehe. That actually happened about 9 years ago when I had a cocker spaniel named Roscoe. He left three days worth of presents right in front of the front desk, after he had intruded on Roscoe's territory. If ya know what I'm sayin. I paid the lady as Roscoe left his thanks. I'll never forget looking back at that sight, thinking Wow Roscoe you sure showed him.

I liked the ramble :p
 

wooddood

the wood dude
you said say yeah if we were confused so YEAH LMAO. no actually i think your on the money the dose is'nt attiquit. thats my story and i'm stickin to it :turntable




dave. :smoking:
 

Gina

Moderator
RS STAFF
BigReepher said:
Hehe. That actually happened about 9 years ago when I had a cocker spaniel named Roscoe. He left three days worth of presents right in front of the front desk, after he had intruded on Roscoe's territory. If ya know what I'm sayin. I paid the lady as Roscoe left his thanks. I'll never forget looking back at that sight, thinking Wow Roscoe you sure showed him. Anyway enough of my rambling.

I picked up a tablet of Interceptor at the new vet. Only one problem, it's a 5.75mg tablet for smaller dogs. I am going to assume that this is basically just a forth of the larger 23mg tablets. I assume that my 5.75mg will treat a total of 95 gallons instead of the larger tablets 380 gallons. I really don't like to assume things, so I need a comforting confirmation. If this tablet weighs one forth of the larger tablets near gram then I know that it is indeed one forth of the larger tablets concentration. Thus the 0.025 per 10 gallons dosage will work. If the tablet doesn't weigh near 1/4 gram then I know the concentration is different and my dosage would have to be changed accordingly. Is this correct? Did I confuse you or myself? Just say yeah so I can blame you if something goes wrong.

P.S. Since I found out I had red bugs I haven't been able to get any bed bugs, which could explain my rhetoric.

You are correct! It is 1/4 of the mg of the large breed.
 

BigReepher

Active Member
Thanks for the reassurance. This treatment seems awful drastic, but the devastation that these little bugs have done is also drastic. I've been pulling all of my hermits and snails out of the tank and putting them in my 20g. I'm still nervous about this, but hey sometimes drastic measures are in order. Thanks again.
 

ScottT1980

Well-Known Member
Alot of Vets are very cautious about giving out prescription drugs without a patient/doctor relationship. You would be amazed at just what some people have ended up suing for. It's all about the legality issue.

Sooooo true, especially with the EPA/petmeds.com issue going on right now. The vet was really just trying to cover his butt (for better or worse), because potentially you could just be trying to procure heartworm meds without the doctor having even seen your dog (to save a buck). Had you given the medication to a HW+ dog, the dog could have dropped dead and you could have ultimately sued the vet for malpractice. Sounds absurd but again, people will suprise you.

That being said, listening to your story might have allowed him to make a more informed decision.

Nevertheless, hope the treatment works well for you. I have throught about using Program (lufeneron) dips for all incoming SPS, just to experiment a bit, perhaps provide an alternate to interceptor. The problem, it could kill all arthropods (or animals that utilize chitin) but is a bit more benign drug...

Take er easy
Scott T.
 
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