Frustration after 4 months

[crushton]

After 4 months I am still dealing with diatoms that won't go away.
I do water changes, use phos-zorb, use carbon for a short time.

When will the substrate look nice and white?

I also cannot get the pH past 8.0. I have read the article that I am going to be referred to many times. Sometimes with our lives as busy as they are I just want a quick answer and don't have the time to research and find it myself. I have been trying to use sodium carbonate (baked baking soda) but no luck. The only thing I can determine is the CO2 being too high in my house. That seems extreme to run an airline from outside - I don't think that is the problem.

Is there another cycle after 4 months. I seem to be losing snails.

I have a refusgium going but cannot find chalpura algae (sp.) yet for it. I have some sawtooth that is growing though.

My current stats:

spg 1.023 to 1.024 steady
pH - 8.0 steady
Ca - 400 fluctuates
Nitrates - 12.5 steady
kH - usually 9-11

Any help out there?
Charlene

 

[crushton]

I bought the yellow-eyed tang to help with the clean-up. That is the best little fish. It sucks the junk off of the sides of the glass. I got a cleaner shrimp the other day too and funny how that symbiotic relationship starts off right away.

 

[Jerome]

I don't know if I would worry to much about the ph at 8.0 if the dkh is 11 that sounds find to me as long as the "swing" at night when ph tends to drop is okay.

As far as co2 I have never heard of atmospheric co2 being to high for the tank in a house. If you think your co2 is to high make sure you have plenty of surface tension from you current source. Also you can add an air pump and put a couple of air stones in the sump.

I know you can test your co2 level by testing the ph of a water sample then put an air stone in the sample and let run (not sure the amount of time several hours?) then test the ph agian and if excess co2 is causing the ph problem the ph should have risen.

As far the diatoms go what is your water source? If it's not RO/DI water you maybe adding silicates everytime you do a water change.:angel3:

 

[crushton]

I don't know if I would worry to much about the ph at 8.0 if the dkh is 11 that sounds find to me as long as the "swing" at night when ph tends to drop is okay. - there is no swing - I test twice

As far as co2 I have never heard of atmospheric co2 being to high for the tank in a house. If you think your co2 is to high make sure you have plenty of surface tension from you current source. Also you can add an air pump and put a couple of air stones in the sump. - there is an air stone in the refugium and major water surface turbulence.

I know you can test your co2 level by testing the ph of a water sample then put an air stone in the sample and let run (not sure the amount of time several hours?) then test the ph agian and if excess co2 is causing the ph problem the ph should have risen. - I read that on the pH literature - I guess that is my last resort.

As far the diatoms go what is your water source? If it's not RO/DI water you maybe adding silicates everytime you do a water change.:angel3:

- it is RO water - I think I may make some little phos-zorb bags to keep in my jugs just in case or find a silicate and phosphate tester to make sure they are not in there - I guess that would answer that question. - The RO filters were brand new in January.

Thanks for helping - I was thinking what you were.

 

[roadrunner1659]

crushton you said that the problem has been going on for 4 months now? also how thick does the brown-stuff get? and does it cover everything? and how quickly will it return after you clean everything?

 

[crushton]

It looks somewhat better for about a day and then it comes right back. It is brown that you can see clinging to the glass and moving towards the current (make sense?)/ It moves I guess is what I am saying.
I assume this is diatoms but could it be brown algae? If it is - the same things that I am already doing should take care of it?
Thanks so much for your help.
Charlene

 

[crushton]

I am really excited about adding (hard and soft) corals (besides mushrooms and the ones growing on the rock already) but have waited for the tank to balance out - which is not happening.

 

[Woodstock]

As far as high amounts of indoor co2, my house has them during the winter months bad! During the past few weeks, we have been able to open the windows and avoid using our heating unit (natual gas)... during this time, my PH has risen 1.0 - 3.0 units !! That is a large increase but I am not surprised since everything (dryer, stove/oven, hot water heater, fireplace, and furnace) burns off of natural gas which has a byproduct of co2. The co2 test that was mentioned above, should be done OUTSIDE and INSIDE (2 seperate tests: fill a large cup with tank water, test the ph, then place an airstone in it for 2-3 hours, at the end of the 2-3 hours, retest the ph in the cup. If there is a dramatic difference in the two tests, you have yoiur answer

As far as your algae issue, try using either phosban or rowaphos, both help remove po4 and silicates. I even use phosban in my mixing 30 gal Brute container to be sure no po4/silicates enter the tank. Remember too that carbon leaches a LOT of po4... always soak it in ro/di prior to use.

I would also slowly raise the salinity to 1.025-6 since yoiu plan to keep corals.

Get a second opinion on the PH level too.... You may want to invest in a PH monitor. I use Pinpoint and it works great! It is easy to calibrate and at a glance I know what the PH is

 

[crushton]

With the CO2 - what is a solution? I can see the problem is that my tank is backing the wall of the furnace room and about 30 feet from the dryer. Is running an outside airline going to help or what else can I do. It's too cold for windows open (Chicago area :tears: ).

Do you use a new phoszorb in your top off water and just use it in another bucket? How long is enough to pull out the silicates from the water?

Thanks

 

[Woodstock]

Somehow you need to pipe in fresh air. Running an outside airline would work I think.... Just be ready for a large PH spike when you do!

I do not use phoszorb... I use an iron-based media called Phosban. I only use it in my sump and in my water mixing container and NOT in my topoff reservoir; my top off reservoir is a strong mixture of kalkwasser so the kalk binds with po4 and settles to the bottom of the container. I clean the settlement out of the reservoir every 6 months or so. If I wasn't using kalkwasser and topped off with only fresh water, then yes, I would certainly put phosban in there also.

I am not certain how long it takes the media to remove the po4/silicates; I usually circulate my newly made salt water for atleast one day but usually 2.

 

[cecilio]

hi
it happenned the same to my now is fine i believe my mistakes were as follow
1)too little flow then i added 2 power heads
2)i added too many additives not any more
3)too many fishes in tank
4) skimmer was too weak, i upgraded it
5)too much feeding fishes, now only once a day
also is my opinion that until your tank is at least 6 month , you will have diatom blooms once in a while
be patience you will make it

 

[cecilio]

hi
i also use a buffer by seachem it will rise your ph to 8.2 in a week,in my second tank what i did to set it up was:
first i installed the live rock alone and leaved them alonne for 4v weeks, then i added the liva sand ,then two weeks after i adde corals, and three weeks after i added fishes one every two days and it cycled beautiful, almost not algae, and no diatom,please ig i can be of further help let me know

 

[cheeks69]

What do you have for a cleanup crew ? What type of substrate do you use, is it aragonite ?

 

[Stevenmi]

YES.....clean up crew...many suggest one for every 2 gallons of water...

From the GARF site
"CERITH SNAIL
Family Cerithiidae (CERITHS)
Cerithium strercusmuscarum

THIS SNAIL EATS DIATOM ALGAE -
Dark brown sculptured tower shaped (Turriform) algae eater. Active glass cleaner.
It stays down in the aquarium on the glass cleaning algae and diatoms. It is listed in Julian Sprung's Reef Aquarium as a good algae eater. One inch long pointed shell, it can get in between rocks, it is a great glass cleaner. This snail cleans in zig zag pattern. It's radula is able to remove diatoms so well that they do not regrow from the original algal film. This snail does not dislodge or disturb any specimens.


NERITE SNAIL
Family Neritidae
Nerita funiculata
Brown and black round algae eater. Active glass cleaner This species of Mexican Nerite is just great. IT STAYS IN AQUARIUM
This snail lives much longer than astraea, it is slower and much better at removing all the algae and diatoms from the rocks and glass. This snail does not leave an algae film on the glass. It is also listed in Julian Sprung's Reef Aquarium as a good algae eater.


MEXICAN DWARF HERMIT CRABS
Clibanarius digueti

Congregos Ermitanos
Arthropa
super family - - Coenobitoidea (Hermit Crabs)
family -- Diogenidae
genus -- Clibanarius
species - - digueti
Lower Gulf of Mexico and outer Baja to Bahia de Magalena.
Species is usually red in appearance with expanded chromatophores forming blue spots over their cheliped (claws) and walking legs. The antennae and antennules are bright red. The tips of all legs are also red or orange.

This small crab is the best algae eating hermit crab. Chibanarius digueti feeds on algae that grows on the rocky substrate and mangrove roots.
C. digueti occupies a large variety of shells. This hermit crab is found in the oldest coraline incrusted shells. I have found entire colonies in broken sand worn shells. The crabs from La paz often occupied such a strange assortment of shells that I could identify the colonies before I looked at the crabs.
Both the Blue leg hermits and the red San Sabastion crabs always are collected in clean fresh shells. Both of these crabs have eaten snails in my reef tanks. I have kept C. digurti in reef tanks in colonies of over 10 crabs per gallon with many types of snails.


A very important item are the Mexican Red Leg Hermit Crabs. These little suckers are amazing! I had several rocks which had Cyanobacteria red slime algae covering them from the old system.
The morning after adding the crabs I witnessed "Herds" of about 6 or 7 crabs each that would concentrate on a rock at a time, totally eliminating the Cyanobacteria I have never heard of a cyanobacteria eating critter like this and it seems they actually prefer it! A week later, my tank was almost completely free of red slime.

I have not seen them harm anything in the tank. I even tested this in another tank. I placed a small rock fully covered in Cyanobacteria and 8 crabs in a 10 gallon tank for 4 hours. In 4 hours, the rock was about 50% clean!*


TURBAN SNAIL
Family Trochidae
(TROCUS)
Tegula subaperta

Brown rounded turbin shaped algae eater 12. Active glass cleaner and sand stirrer. Cleans glass like astrea and cleans sand. This small black snail will not move rocks or damage any invertebrates. This is my pick for algae control - LeRoy. This is the only snail we have tested that divides it1s time between cleaning the glass and digging in the sand. Long lived reef aquarium janitor!!"


Steve

 

[Craig Lambert]

Turbo snails usually go after diatoms IME. I think the source of the problem may be just a lack of nutrient export. Your bioload is quite heavy for such a young tank, and three of the fish you have chosen produce a tremendous amount of waste.

I agree with what was said above about pH. I don't see it as a big concern. The recommended range is 7.8-8.5 with 8.2-8.3 being the best. Just airing out your house can help to raise your pH. (Also removing glass tops if you have them). What skimmer are you using?

 

[RANDY]

If You Ever Need To Test The Quality Of Your Ro Unit, Bring A Sample Of Water To Your Lfs And Have Them Test It For Dissolved Solids. This Will At Least Determine If Your Membrane Needs To Be Replaced. Glad To Hear Things Are Improving. By The Way, What Type Of Lighting Are You Utilizing?

 

[crushton]

clean-up
just bought 5 large mexican turbo snails to add to the 3 or 4 narc. plus 5 or turbo, 5 pepp. shrimp, 1 cleaner chrimp

outside air pump is on the way to rig up to pipe in fresh air

tried the Seachem reef pH increase and still have it but someone told me to stop because it shoots the alkanlinity through the roof - also tried sodium carbonate "baked baking soda"

no glass on top - open for pendant MH's

have 15 gallons of water sitting prepping for a water change

phosban is on the way

substrate is aragonite

refugium is just set up and the only algae I could get local was sawtooth? which is growing - working on getting something else

skimmer is part of the Pro 150 wet/dry system that came with my tank. I "bbefed up" the skimmer by adding as airline with a limewood to it - my LFS guy said maybe the bubbles are not getting enough surface time by doing that so I turned it off. There is still another air pump going to the intake of the ventura though. I am not really getting that much scum a day but it is hard to tell because it drains into a 2-liter bottle. I have been wondering if this is the problem.

What is the normal output from a skimmer each day?

Thanks for all of the help - I need it!
Charlene

 

[crushton]

lighting
2 x 400 watt 20,000 K Metal Halides

set on a timer to run for 8 hours and then nothing but darkness

 

[Witfull]

skimmers will vary output, due to bioload and feeding. they will vary day to day, hour to hour.

 

[nigle]

Oi!

Well if your tank is just 6 months old and you have diatoms then your tank is still new, whatever was suggested above is the going 'ideas', but since it is still 'new' [younger than 2 years old], I would agree with what Fossa said, and you are still on #4 of your 6 stages of cycling.

Wait till you get to #6, HA!

Cheers!
nigle
!~!