Flashing During Copper Treatment

[wesam swailem]

Re: can i use API super ich in the DT containing live rocks

Hiii
i am using Cupramine now in the quarantine for more than 20 days with the same concentration of copper, the white spots are gone but yesterday my yellow tang started to scratch against the inner filter in her gills area.....

so what is this??
i dont have any symptoms of spots on the other fish nor other scratching fish

pls advice

The Egyptian Wesam

 

[wesam swailem]

Re: can i use API super ich in the DT containing live rocks

Hiii

 

[leebca]

This is not that unusual in a normal treatment, but this treatment has gone on too long.

What can happen is that the parasite often attacks the gills of the fish. A copper treatment then irritates the gills of the fish and the fish continues (or begins) to flash.

ALSO, if the water quality is not good, the poisons in the water can irritate the fish and cause it to flash. So you have to first be sure the water quality is excellent. Check for any signs of ammonia and nitrites. Make huge water changes to control these.

Were you monitoring the concentration of the copper closely? This is very important. Lower the concentration to a reading of 0.3 ppm copper according to the Salifert Copper Test Kit and hold it there.

If you're using Cupramine, then why are you treating for more than 15 days? Treatment should have stopped a few days ago. Over treatment is not good for the fish and it might be reacting to copper poisoning at this point in time.

You are beyond the treatment time. If for some reason you think the fish still needs to be treated for Marine Ich, then switch to a hyposalinity treatment and be sure the water quality is the best it can be.

 

[wesam swailem]

thanks allot Lee,

here what happend
at the day 14th of treatment i saw my tang flashing and scrastching which is the same symtoms but without white spots, so i continue treating as you said in your post that i should monitor the fish after treatment for 4 weeks.

most probably i have conducted the both the above mistakes
i have small nitrites and still has the high copper concentration.

but is the high copper drive the fish to scratch also??

if yes what shall i do now..

i notice a very light reddish color in the head area .. might be due to copper?

am sorry for your time but it is very hard here in Egypt to find experts in marine tanks..)))

 

[leebca]

I understand.

Stop the copper treatment. Remove copper from the water. You do this by making a very large water change with salt water that has no copper in it. Follow these guidelines and make a water change greater than 85%: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...7-how-make-safe-water-change-marine-fish.html

Remove more copper from the water by treating the water with a filter that removes copper. Activated carbon is good for this. There are other products, too. If you use carbon, then replace the carbon with fresh carbon one week after it starts. Just before this replacement, though, do another large water change.

Watch for water quality. You should be following the guidelines here: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums.../23584-fish-quarantine-process-step-step.html

Copper can cause the fish to flash, if it is applied in the wrong concentration (too high) or for too long.

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Copper is a poison to the fish as well as the parasite. Fortunately, the parasite dies from a very little amount of copper. But even a little amount slowly harms the fish. So controlling the copper concentration is important and keeping to the directions.

I think if you follow the above the fish will be okay, assuming the fish is being fed the proper foods and is eating.

If the poisons have allowed the fish to weaken and the fish has gotten infected, you'll need a fish antibiotic to treat it. You might want to start now to obtain the antibiotic you'll need. I don't know what's available to you there in Egypt, but you want an antibiotic for salt water fishes that works on systemic infections. One here in the USA is Maracyn Two for Saltwater fishes. Other antibiotics that contain Nitrofurazone as a primary ingredient are also good. I can't help you by reviewing what's available to you -- I only know those two for these conditions.

After you make the large water change and start the carbon running, the fish should start to heal itself. By the end of the first week, you should be able to tell the fish is healing. If not, then treat at the end of the week with the antibiotic, after the second big water change, and stop using the carbon when you use the antibiotic.

Ask if you have questions and we'll try to help you. Sorry for the distance between us, which cause a slow down in responses.

It is a good idea to get the antibiotic now before you might need it, so you have it ready.

 

[wesam swailem]

Dear Lee,

i dont know what to say to thank you for your support and help, i wish i can return your favors and BigAl as well .

unfortunately we dont have much of marine tanks supply here am geting what i need from Amazon but it takes 21 days

we dont have activated carbon and i did not order it..

so can i make water changes only? and if yes please specify a time and percentage frame...

thanks a million .....

 

[leebca]

Do a large water change. If you can change out more than 85% as noted in my first post, then do it, for the first exchange.

Every two days, perform another large water change (75% is good), for two more times.

I understand your problems with getting supplies. If that is the case, then I would advise starting your own stock of supplies. You should read this and consider some of those things to stock: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...17-stocking-marine-fish-medicine-cabinet.html

You might want to consider stocking spare equipment for a quarantine tank to also have those things you'll need to help sick fishes. Activated carbon and filters would be an example of things to stock.

The above post will specially apply to your situation. You may have to discard outdated materials and replace them, but having them when you need them will be very important -- if you want to save your fish and help them. Here in the USA we tend to treat our fish like pets and give them the best care we can.

 

[wesam swailem]

i know this fact of treating your fish like pets.. actually the excellent thing about your country and culture that are dealing with any aspect of life in professionalism even healing a 1 dollar fish which seems to others waste of time.
but this 1 dollar fish become my responsibility once i bought it and put in my own tank ..

so i will do my best to treat it and i will keep you updated.

meanwhile if you need anything from Egypt or if you have a friend traveling to here plss tell me and i will be more than glad to help or be to be an advisor..

Wesam

 

[wesam swailem]

Dear Lee,

i think i am going well now and the tang start to act normally
i have another problem, the coral beauty is not eating as she usually was eating from the live rocks ... i tried frozen shrimp, fresh clam , food soaked in garlic and broccoli but noyhing went for her...
what shall i do

 

[leebca]

A fish that begins to eat in captivity then stops is often going off its feeding because of stress. This can be anything from water quality to tank mates, environment and just because the fish isn't acclimated properly. A quarantine process takes care of many of these stressors.

One of the 9 reasons for putting fish through a quarantine process is to get them to eat the right kinds of foods. Other reasons include having them in a worry-free environment, without other fish competition and not giving them place to hide. These wild fish need training on what to eat in captivity.

When you first get a new fish, if you don't offer it living rock, it will not fall back into old habits of 'hunting for food.' They are easier to train when they can't hide a lot and don't find food on their own. This is ultimately good, since the only food they can get is the food you will putting into the aquarium for them to eat.

However, now that the fish is in the display tank, you'll just have to try your best. These posts will give you some ideas to try to get the fish to eat again:
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/37729-my-new-fish-wont-eat-tips.html
and
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...ts/34491-getting-fish-eating-right-foods.html

When you are ready to get deeper into the hobby and do things better, you'll want to learn about how to quarantine all new fishes properly:
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums.../23584-fish-quarantine-process-step-step.html