Fish Help Please

[Gumby]

Ok, my regal has been scrappnig rock with its body and has some red lines/patches (he has been hiding quite a bit so I have been taking quitck looks at him) on it tail by where the sharp boney piece is. He is not eating as much as he used to.

My Royal Gramma has been real lethargic lately.

What disease fighter do you all recommend I use on my tank.

I don't have a QT tank, so what ever I do has to be done to the main tank.

I do not have any corals at the moment and do not plan on getting any soon.

Please help.

thanks,

Gumby

 

[Gumby]

BUMP^

 

[EdgeKrusher]

Gumby go get a 10 gallon rubber maid container, a heater, and a powerhead. That's a good enough QT tank. You want to get them out of the display. What are your tank parameter's like? how long have you had the fish? when did you first see signs of the disease? Do the red splotches look velvety at all.

Do the symptoms look like any of these?

Marine Velvet

Common Marine Fish Diseases

I'm no vet, but maybe these can help you determine what's going on, and how to cure it. Keep us updated.

EK

 

[Woodstock]

Red streaks? Sounds like maybe a bacterial infection. Definately step up on your water changes and check all the water parameters to be sure it's not a water quality issue. Also, make sure your not feeding old fish food (I keep mine at the longest 3 months) Moving fish to a 'hospital' tank/tub to treat it could help if you know what the disease is, but It really stresses the fish out.. so be careful.

Good Luck!! Let us know how it goes!!

 

[Cosmic]

I would start by following EK's recommendation of a QT tank. Depending on the size of your blue morpho, a 10 Gal might not be big enough to house all your fish.

Normally, scratching would suggest that your fish have come down with ich, in which case I'd recommend a good copper based treatment.
However, you mention red streaks in thier fins also, which could be a few different things. It's possibly caused by the scraping your fish have been doing, injuring themselves while trying to remove the parasites. It's also possible that it is a bacterial infection. Infections of this manner are treated with Erythromyacin with fairly good success by me. Even if it IS bacterial related, I still believe that you are seeing a mild outbreak of ich as well, since the fish are constantly scraping.

Be aware that copper added to a tank can be very difficult to remove since it binds to all the surfaces. It can also wipe out delicate inverts like snails, stars, shrimp, and crabs, not to mention anemones and corals.
Also know that Erythromyacin (or any other anti-bacterial medication) is going to do just as it's name implies.....Kill bacteria. This means both Good AND Bad bacterias, resulting in higher ammonia and nitrites while under use.

Best of luck in treating your fish,
Cos

 

[Woodstock]

Many (not all) fish are able to fight off parasitic infestations if given pristine water conditions and a good diet. Sometimes chemical treatments can kill the already weakend fish.

I would perform extra water changes and add garlic to their food for the next month; transferring them to a quarantine tank/tub and treating with a chemical only as a last resort. JMO

 

[EdgeKrusher]

The 10 gallon rubbermaid was just an idea of what could be cheaply done. You could go bigger. But if you do decide to treat with any kind of "medication" you have to QT, it's not worth the risk of contaminating your display, JMO. Hope all goes well.

 

[Gumby]

THanks all for the replies.

I am pretty sure its a water issue. I purchased a 6 stage RODI this week from Aquasafecanada via ebay ($82 and change before shipping) so once i get that in it ought to change rather quickly to better water.

I could possibly use my wifes tank as QT, its just a matter of catching those two with the issue.

Can I get the eurythmociacin from a fish store?

 

[EdgeKrusher]

yes, I belive it's call Myacin or Myacin 2 or something like that. If you think it's a water quality issue, then don't even treat the fish with the Erythromyacin, there's no need. If it's Ich the best way to treat it is with a quarentine period of 6 weeks.

 

[Gumby]

I have a skunk cleaner shrimp, but the coral beauty believes the shrimp is his personnal cleaner and no one else is allowed to use it.

Skunk shrimp are the best with ich.

BTW, i do not see any white cottony spots like ich.

 

[BigReepher]

I agree with what has already been said. I would like to add that food soaked in garlic can help boost the immune system of fish. It's is commonly used to treat mild cases of ich, but it also promotes overall health. It can also persuade a finicky eater to chow down.

 

[Cosmic]

I am pretty sure its a water issue. I purchased a 6 stage RODI this week from Aquasafecanada via ebay ($82 and change before shipping) so once i get that in it ought to change rather quickly to better water.

If your fish are exhibiting scratching and redness of fins, a few water changes with a "good" (RO) water isn't going to do much unless your water parameters are way off. The main thing a "clean" water will do for you is reduce the amount of algae you fight by reducing phosphates of incoming water. Phosphates don't cause ich. Stress generally causes ich.
What I'm saying is that I'd try something else in conjuction with the water changes because I don't think that's going to help very much, fwiw.

I'd also go ahead with treatment at this time. Normally I'm one to let my fish fight things naturally, but the redness of fins means it's getting out of hand, and the fish isn't going to have an easy time recovering without some help, imho.

Cos

 

[Gumby]

I started dosing this evening with Marycin. Tnaks water looks green.

I also had my LFS check my water params and they say that with the exception of slight phosphate reading, everything else is right on the money. ( I say slight because I cannot remember the number he said).

 

[Craig Manoukian]

You may want to turn off your skimmer whilre you are treating your tank.

:smirk:

 

[Gumby]

THanks, I figured that one out after my skimmer overflowed last night.

 

[cheeks69]

Stress generally causes ich.

Myth and misconception
It is a common misconception among hobbyists that fish must be in a weakened state before they are susceptible to infection with Cryptocaryon irritans. Stress is a factor as it does reduce immune function in fish. This makes it less likely that fish will develop some level of acquired immunity after becoming infected. However, stress (or weakened condition) is not a prerequisite to infection with Cryptocaryon irritans. Healthy fish that are not unduly stressed are susceptible to infection upon exposure to this pathogen.

Cryptocaryon irritans is an obligate parasite, meaning that it cannot complete its life cycle (at the trophont stage) without a host fish. Taking into account that the normal time frame in which tomonts will hatch ranges from 3 to 28 days, a fallow (without fish) period of 30 days to 6 weeks is recommended to eliminate this parasite from an aquarium. Removing all potential hosts from a system for this period of time should eradicate the pest from the aquarium. If the fish are removed from the display to another aquarium for treatment and an effective means of therapy (i.e. hyposalinity or copper treatments) is employed, then those fish will be clean of infection.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2003/mini1.htm

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2004/mini3.htm

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2834

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=329899

 

[p.villalba]

i thaing that you nned follow the sugestion of cheks . i has ich problems a few month ago i neede move all my fish to another tank. the problem is that when you see ich in some fish is probably that yuou tank have hundreds or thousands the eggs of the parasit waiting to go out and infest some host . when the baby parasit go out of the egg if o have any host that can infest t live and propagate , it die at days or posiible 1- weeks if the tank is satured with eggs. the books that i reed say that you need go uot the fishes for 1 mont because you not know how many eggs ??? have your tank .
in the qt you can add copper base solution with maracyn 2 to attack the bacteria interir and exterior , not forqut soak the food with garlic and vitamins for wake up the inmunology system
hope that you can win the battle with ich

 

[cheeks69]

COPPER-based medications (some contain other chemicals in combination with copper) should only be administered in an aquarium that does not contain invertebrates, rock, substrate or other calcareous material.

Copper suppresses immune function and is highly stressful to fish. Copper is also toxic to fish, but to a lesser degree than with invertebrates. Administering a dose that is too high may kill the fish being treated. If the copper level is not high enough then the treatment will be ineffective. This necessitates testing the copper level twice a day and making adjustments as needed.

Take care to read the recommended dosage in the instructions when using any copper-based medication. The correct dosage varies with the product. Test the copper level twice a day with a test kit that will accurately measure the particular type of copper that you are medicating with. The results of using an incorrect dosage with any copper-based medication can be catastrophic. Chelated forms of copper tend to require a higher dose and they are generally less effective than the non-chelated forms. A therapeutic copper level should be maintained continuously for a minimum of three weeks.

HYPOSALINITY has numerous advantages over copper-based medications (Bartelme, 2001c). This method does not suppress immune functions such as phagocytic activity. Antibiotics can be used in conjunction with hyposalinity therapy. Some antibiotics are more effective, or a lower dose is required when the salinity is less than that of natural seawater. The salinity only needs to be checked once a day while administrating treatment. Chemical filters such as carbon and Poly Filter™ can be used when employing hyposalinity therapy.
Treatment should continue for a minimum of three weeks after a therapeutic salinity level has been reached. Unlike most other forms of treatment for cryptocaryonosis, hyposalinity does not target the "free-swimming" or theront stage. Hyposalinity therapy works by interrupting the life cycle at the tomont stage. Tomonts are destroyed by hyposaline conditions, thus preventing re-infection. HTH

 

[Gumby]

Day 3 of drugging my fish. (using Marycin and halfing the dossage so I can treat longer)

Gramma seems to be moving around more, not a whole lot, but more than he was before.

Regal is more active, still hides when I walk by so it is hard to see if anything is amiss on his sides as far as the color goes.

Regal seems to be eating more.

Haven't seen the Gramma eat, but I don't see him eat a whole lot anyways. Hit the food feeder button on the automatic feeder and everyone at but him.

Protein skimmer has been off for 3 days.

 

[Craig Manoukian]

Thanks for keeping us posted!