Feeding woes Part II
- Thread starter fidojoe
- Start date
mojoreef
Just a reefer
Its funny how we all look at things differently Curt. What you said above to me sounds like he perfect concept..and truely one that mimics nature the best. The foods you listed above, plus the fact that you are trying to reproduce plankton means that you are subjecting your tank to alot of organic phosphates, which is ok. Whatever corals and such that may want these foods will have thier shot at them when you are feeding, but after that all these food types will do is to begin to rot...so what better thing top do then to strip them out of the tank and maintain water quality.
mike
Curtswearing
Active Member
Actually, I pretty much agree with you. I just wish we had a way of maintaining a good balance without spending $$$.
I have researched greenwater and I think I'm going to look into it. I have also seen this >>Plankton Reactor<< (halfway down the page on my link).
I translated word for word an email to the makers of the Zinn Plankton reactor but it would be too costly to import.
EDIT---Here's another link >>Zinn Plankton Reactor<<
I have researched greenwater and I think I'm going to look into it. I have also seen this >>Plankton Reactor<< (halfway down the page on my link).
I translated word for word an email to the makers of the Zinn Plankton reactor but it would be too costly to import.
EDIT---Here's another link >>Zinn Plankton Reactor<<
jks1
Member
i agree with Mike, i consider it benificial that the skimmers remove what is not consumed in a short period of time. I feed phyto and zooplankton as well. A few minutes before i put it in i shut off all but one surface PH to calm the waters and allow the food to remain in suspension for a few minutes. I also try and target the corals. Whatever is left after a few minutes i want to have removed by the skimmer. JMO
You know what else is cool, it only took a couple of feeding sessions for my fish and shrimp to equate the PH going off w/ feeding time. They rush up to the top of the tank when the PH's go off!
You know what else is cool, it only took a couple of feeding sessions for my fish and shrimp to equate the PH going off w/ feeding time. They rush up to the top of the tank when the PH's go off!
sorcerer
Court Computer Wiz
Curt,
The ecosystem filters are based on the skimmerless concept. I've been tring out the hang on back Ecosystem 40 on the 20G tank I have at the office. Its only been up about three months and as you know from my posts on Frag, I recently had fish and shrimp die. I still feel this is related to an outside chemical getting into the system.
The filter is very simple. It is basically a three chamber 'fuge. the first chanber receives water from the tank via a j-tube overflow siphon. This chamber is loaded with bio balls to aid in converting ammonia and nitrite to nitrate. The seond chaber is the largest and is filled with a miracle mud substrate and Calpura (sp?) macro. The ecosystem folks strongly recommend this tpe of macroalgae for their filter. The macro and mud bed in the second chamber are supposed to take up the nitrates and phosphates. The third chamber has a filter sponge and return pump (rio eck!).
You also get some pod growth in the second chamber but the filter sponge and the return pump pretty much insure that very little in the way of pods get back to the main tank.
I don't know that I am a believer in this system yet, it will have to run a lot longer before I will be convinced that it is any better than a system with a skimmer.
The ecosystem folks are great believers in the skimmerless concept. We have several other users that are pursuing this type of filtration. maybe they will join in.
HTH
The ecosystem filters are based on the skimmerless concept. I've been tring out the hang on back Ecosystem 40 on the 20G tank I have at the office. Its only been up about three months and as you know from my posts on Frag, I recently had fish and shrimp die. I still feel this is related to an outside chemical getting into the system.
The filter is very simple. It is basically a three chamber 'fuge. the first chanber receives water from the tank via a j-tube overflow siphon. This chamber is loaded with bio balls to aid in converting ammonia and nitrite to nitrate. The seond chaber is the largest and is filled with a miracle mud substrate and Calpura (sp?) macro. The ecosystem folks strongly recommend this tpe of macroalgae for their filter. The macro and mud bed in the second chamber are supposed to take up the nitrates and phosphates. The third chamber has a filter sponge and return pump (rio eck!).
You also get some pod growth in the second chamber but the filter sponge and the return pump pretty much insure that very little in the way of pods get back to the main tank.
I don't know that I am a believer in this system yet, it will have to run a lot longer before I will be convinced that it is any better than a system with a skimmer.
The ecosystem folks are great believers in the skimmerless concept. We have several other users that are pursuing this type of filtration. maybe they will join in.
HTH
sharks
Contributing Member
While this method does work well for the corals and fish I prefer to let high flow keep to food in suspension. A half hour or so after feeding any food. Phyto or prepared frozen foods I rinse the sponges in the overflows well. I prefer to take the extra 2 minuets to physically remove as much food/waste as possible. That way my shimmer and the bacteria won’t need to break them down further. When and if I overhaul this tank I will incorporate a closed loop and have even more flow so NO waste settles to the bottom.
JMO HIH
S
Curtswearing
Active Member
Did you guys take a look at the Plankton Reactor links? I MUST have one of those. You not only get live phytoplankton---you also get enriched zooplankton. If I added one of those plus the plankton from my refugium, then I would have tons of LIVE coral food.
Let's let this become a meandering thread to some degree. I feel that live plankton is better than dead plankton and that is why I love that plankton reactor. However, I always love to bounce ideas off of people. What are your thoughts on this subject? Please post what you feel about this or the subjects in this thread.
The one's I see are---
The Pros/Cons of skimmers (I have seen several skimmerless tanks that work well---I personally think they are a great insurance policy).
Best way to feed corals
Live Plankton vs Dead Plankton
High Flow/No Flow feeding
Let's let this become a meandering thread to some degree. I feel that live plankton is better than dead plankton and that is why I love that plankton reactor. However, I always love to bounce ideas off of people. What are your thoughts on this subject? Please post what you feel about this or the subjects in this thread.
The one's I see are---
The Pros/Cons of skimmers (I have seen several skimmerless tanks that work well---I personally think they are a great insurance policy).
Best way to feed corals
Live Plankton vs Dead Plankton
High Flow/No Flow feeding
I don't think anyone will disagree that live plankton is better than dead. 
Personally, I credit my hang-on refugium with much of my corals' health and growth. Same concept...constant influx of live (and dead I suppose) food. If you already have a good healthy fuge, don't forget to reflect every once in a while about how much zooplankyon you're already feeding.
BTW, if I grow caulerpa in my fuge, that doesn't necessarily mean I have phtyoplankton culring in there, does it?
And as far as new frontiers in feeding, I know this guy who swears by feeding his kick-butt SPS tank a Coolpix 995.
Sorry Mojo, couldn't help myself.
Personally, I credit my hang-on refugium with much of my corals' health and growth. Same concept...constant influx of live (and dead I suppose) food. If you already have a good healthy fuge, don't forget to reflect every once in a while about how much zooplankyon you're already feeding.
BTW, if I grow caulerpa in my fuge, that doesn't necessarily mean I have phtyoplankton culring in there, does it?
And as far as new frontiers in feeding, I know this guy who swears by feeding his kick-butt SPS tank a Coolpix 995.
Sorry Mojo, couldn't help myself.
Dennis7
Member
I believe feeding corals. However, I added a skimmer for too many reasons to list here. So basically, I'm adding a bunch of food and then stripping it right back out.
Does anyone see of a better way of accomplishing two goals----clean water and healthy corals? [/B][/QUOTE]
Curt,
Can't you just turn off your skimmer for a bit so the corals can feed, then turn it back on to take any excess out?
Does anyone see of a better way of accomplishing two goals----clean water and healthy corals? [/B][/QUOTE]
Curt,
Can't you just turn off your skimmer for a bit so the corals can feed, then turn it back on to take any excess out?
Maxx
Well-Known Member
I'm trying to remember the site, might be MLeves reef, but somebody had built a push button timer that turned off their skimmer for 60 minutes so they could feed the tank. An easier solution would be to place the skimmer on timing cycle just like the lights...12 on, 12 off....
Just a thought,
Nick
Just a thought,
Nick
www.melevsreef.com
Great guy, very handy, he built my underwater photo box!
Here's the link to his timer
Great guy, very handy, he built my underwater photo box!
Here's the link to his timer
Curtswearing
Active Member
OK guys. I know all of you. I'm trying to figure out how to do some of the administrative chores here so I'm experimenting on you.
I'm going to try to move this to the Feeding Woes thread that Mojoreef started up. Please forgive me if I mess it up.
EDIT---it worked!!!
I'm going to try to move this to the Feeding Woes thread that Mojoreef started up. Please forgive me if I mess it up.
EDIT---it worked!!!
mojoreef
Just a reefer
Darn Curt you did that right in the middle of a long post reply you dirty dog, lol
Yea Travis I knew I wasnt going to live that one down. lol
Curt this could be a long one, lol.
Feeding live phyo in place of dead is always a better idea, the dead will begin to be reduced as soon as they hit the water through bacterial action (rotting). so yep live is better. But I think you really have to seperate these feeding habbits and requirements becuase most things dont touch phyto.
Phytoplankton are required by filter feeders such as tube worms, some sponges, some gorgonians, some types of clams, and a few corals in the dendro and nepthia familiy. So lets stay with Phytoplankton for a bit. Thier are many types of phytoplankton (90% of all marine plants are phytoplankton) and they come in a wide warty of sizes and strains (Nannochloris, Isochrysis, Tetraselmis, among others). now this makes a big difference as certian things will only eat certian type/strains/sizes of phyto. So when buying or trying to culture you must make sure you have a wide varity of types so you cover your bases. An example would be a popular product (DT's Phytoplankton). ALthough it has a decent shelf life and has tested well for live, it is made using only one type of phyto (Nanochloropsis species) so although it maybe introducing a live phyto population into your tank it may even not be used by those that consume phyto.That and under good conditions in our reef tanks a phytoplankton will only live for about a day at best.(Fabricus et al 1995,Sorokin, Y.I. (1995): Coral Reef Ecology, 2nd Edition, Springer Verlag, New York, USA. for those that may want reference).
So in the world of feeding phyto its not as easy a most would think when it comes down to it. So lets take a look at what a Phyto plankton is made of. Phyto are made of mainly nitrogen and phosphorous compounds and iron also. So if we relate it to our animals that we are trying to feed we can see why they want it...main for it nitrogen and phosphorous.
If one stands back and looks at all this put to together. Am I feeding the right or the correct ammount of differing phytoplankon, Is it live or dead. What impact does it have on my water quality, Am I really just adding phosphate and nitrogen to my tank, If all I am adding is phosphate and nitrogen to the tank is thier n0t an easier way of doing this that all coraals and critters can use it.
Anyway I ramble. So thier is a bit of how I look at it. Please join in and fill in some of the gaps.
Mike
Yea Travis I knew I wasnt going to live that one down. lol
Curt this could be a long one, lol.
Feeding live phyo in place of dead is always a better idea, the dead will begin to be reduced as soon as they hit the water through bacterial action (rotting). so yep live is better. But I think you really have to seperate these feeding habbits and requirements becuase most things dont touch phyto.
Phytoplankton are required by filter feeders such as tube worms, some sponges, some gorgonians, some types of clams, and a few corals in the dendro and nepthia familiy. So lets stay with Phytoplankton for a bit. Thier are many types of phytoplankton (90% of all marine plants are phytoplankton) and they come in a wide warty of sizes and strains (Nannochloris, Isochrysis, Tetraselmis, among others). now this makes a big difference as certian things will only eat certian type/strains/sizes of phyto. So when buying or trying to culture you must make sure you have a wide varity of types so you cover your bases. An example would be a popular product (DT's Phytoplankton). ALthough it has a decent shelf life and has tested well for live, it is made using only one type of phyto (Nanochloropsis species) so although it maybe introducing a live phyto population into your tank it may even not be used by those that consume phyto.That and under good conditions in our reef tanks a phytoplankton will only live for about a day at best.(Fabricus et al 1995,Sorokin, Y.I. (1995): Coral Reef Ecology, 2nd Edition, Springer Verlag, New York, USA. for those that may want reference).
So in the world of feeding phyto its not as easy a most would think when it comes down to it. So lets take a look at what a Phyto plankton is made of. Phyto are made of mainly nitrogen and phosphorous compounds and iron also. So if we relate it to our animals that we are trying to feed we can see why they want it...main for it nitrogen and phosphorous.
If one stands back and looks at all this put to together. Am I feeding the right or the correct ammount of differing phytoplankon, Is it live or dead. What impact does it have on my water quality, Am I really just adding phosphate and nitrogen to my tank, If all I am adding is phosphate and nitrogen to the tank is thier n0t an easier way of doing this that all coraals and critters can use it.
Anyway I ramble. So thier is a bit of how I look at it. Please join in and fill in some of the gaps.
Mike
Curtswearing
Active Member
I'll get it right but I will make sure no one is posting on the subject at the time.
I have started using the new DT's also.
Curtswearing
Active Member
I spoke with the manufacturer at the IMAC and they said that this is much better than the original formula.
However, based on my research on greenwater, I can use this to start a culture can't I?
However, based on my research on greenwater, I can use this to start a culture can't I?