elegance tank

[The Camel]

Hey all,

First let me thank u guys for the id & links. Been doing a bit of research & decided to setup the 24" i was going to use as a fuge for the elegance to have his own home (it is my fave). Unless maybe have him in the fuge. among the images on the attached link is what i hope to acheive, something similar to that at the waikiki aquarium.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/elegance.htm

Ok now i have spoken with my LFS & am headin there on saturday. Now I have the tank, the old single tube light & either Sun-Glo 4.2k or Aqua-Glo 18k tubes (all spare stock). Am getting a new heater & was thinking of using just a single powerhead w/canister for filtration, with regular part water changes, or i have an old canister that i could set up for bio filtration, but given wat i have read so far they dont mind the waters being a bit "rich". and prefer minimal flowrates so i dont want to over do it.

Am also getting some "marine sand" it is dry bagged but they say it contains all the essential bacteria etc that become activated when water is added... now this sounds a bit suss to me, have you guys heard about this sort of thing, or is it something you use/have used??

Now i am sure there is something i am forgetting as far as start out, have i missed anything?? Also, how long should i allow it to cycle before adding the grasses? and my elegance? Was thinking of syphoning off the silt from my other tank as part of a water change & use it to help start the new one.. yes / no??

Thanks in advance for any assistance

Camel

 

[forestal]

Camel...

as for live sand from the LFS, i wouldn't bother, the tank will cycle with or without it...
You will need a good bed of ~6 inches to house the seagrassses, I would recommend having the tank fully cycled before adding the seagrass.
using some of you sand/silt will be a good start to seeding your deep sand bed, I would recommend getting sources from other collectors of live sand/others tanks, but do so after the tank is cycled...

your deepsand bed working as a filter will tank 3-6 months to get established, but if you are using a canister filter, that will work too..i would make sure your water conditions are pristine before adding your coral...

one other thing, if you are going to grow sea grass, a good source is , and you may want to have some decent strong lighting (which is also needed for the coral)..
nice idea, hope to see pics as it develops

 

[Maxx]

Keep in mind the tank in the Waikiki aquarium is fed by the ocean. You might consider using stronger light and letting your tank get fully cycled before putting in the sea grass, and I would wait until after the seagrass is in and doing well before adding the elegence coral. I dont know how things are out there, but the US is having a really tough time getting good healthy specimens of elegence corals. Ive had two that didnt make it, and everyone I've seen in the LFS wasnt doing well either. If you've got a good source for healthy corals thats the biggest step to success in my book. Good luck and keep us posted.
Nick

 

[cheeks69]

I was talking to an LFS owner that has been selling elegance corals for many years and he believes the problem with the coral is disease, some kind of pathogen and not water conditions. Elegance corals used to be some of the hardiest corals available and it didn't matter if it was nutrient rich or not, MH or VHO's they thrived.

A couple of years ago he started to get some Elegance corals that would die within a very short period of time so he started putting them with elegances he's had for years and not only would the new ones die but the one's he had for years would die shortly thereafter, so getting a healthy speciman is key.

 

[The Camel]

Thanks for all your info guys have also been talking to my LFS today (see other thread) and decided, put together with all the info from here & wat i have been able to put together from the web etc, the elegance is going to get its own tank but not the one i had thought. Yep whole new tank bigger etc etc as always happens with this hobby. Tho to be honest i am not sure if it out does my Penjing, suiseki and bonsai habits...

Yet!

 

[Gina]

Not trying to discourage you from ever having an elegance but, for now I would probably put that on hold. There is alot of research being done to find out why these corals are doing poorly. Eric Borneman is doing extensive research on this project right now. Last I heard about it I think he determined it to be from disease. (someone correct me if I'm wrong),

These corals seems to do well in the beginning. They soon start with the first signs being not extending like they used to with a slimmy mucous starting to appear on their skin. Eventually, they have a swollen look to themselves and soon after die.

I have even seen many of these signs at our LFS on the elegances they have for sale.
Just yesterday when we were there they had one about 10 inches long. He was totally sunken in. They wanted $150.00 for it.

Anyway this is just my thoughts on it...I would wait till they can figure out what is going on with these particular corals before investing the money in them.

 

[middletonmark]

That `disease' hypothesis would contradict Eric B's research [mentioned above by Gina].

He has a large, multi-tank linked system. He got what seemed healthy specimens which were housed in one tank on the system. Another tank on the system had his 5+ year old elegance - which died at the same time the others died.

Seemingly - something that can be spread from bad corals to healthy, stable ones. Possibly somewhere in the chain of shipping ... so that most are on the way out when they arrive - or last just a few months. IMO, very reminiscent of goniopora - though everyone I know with 3+ year old elegance still has them, beautiful lovely and healthy.

IMO, it's very hit or miss with these corals, but the very low % survival rate is still going on with these corals.

There are people who have fragged these or had propagules come off - just saw pictures of some a month or two ago. I'd really search for these ...

 

[mps9506]

I would definately look for the propagules from elegance corals that have been in captivity for a long time. There are still a few people that have them.
I just wouldn't risk purchasing a wild one. You probably have a .01% chance of it living any significant time.

 

[The Camel]

Ok now u guys are starting to worry me. It is something i spoke to my LFS about, because to set it up rite it is a decent whack and i could maybe put that towards getting the fuge setup i have worked out i can fit in the space i have.

Now from what they told me, tho they are going to check with as many they have supplied corals to on prgress health etc. They havent had any probs with elegance locally supplied & hadnt heard anything about it. Is this something that has been seen worldwide or is it maybe regional and dependant on where they have come from. My guy is much happier today with softy out of his way. I plan to re-scape the tank tomorow, as it was just thrown back together after raidng and hopefully he will be a bit happier (i can only hope)

 

[cheeks69]

That `disease' hypothesis would contradict Eric B's research [mentioned above by Gina].

He has a large, multi-tank linked system. He got what seemed healthy specimens which were housed in one tank on the system. Another tank on the system had his 5+ year old elegance - which died at the same time the others died.

How would there be contradiction Mark ? If he has a linked system then any Elegance he adds would be exposed to the pathogen and be at risk wouldn't it ?

I have had my Elegance for about a year and a half, I was fortunate to get a healthy one and I can say that it was much better off when it was in a nutrient rich environment then in my new tank.

I agree with Robert Fenner:

"Unlike corals in general and Small Polyp Stonies in particular, Elegance (and other Caryophyllid) Corals require water of less than typical reef system quality. Yes, you read that right, this species is found lying level in/under muddy, shallows of grassy reef flats, with all that go with the setting; low-medium/diffuse light and high organic nutrient concentrations. Allow me to be more specific... you’re soon to understand why these animals often suffer in aquarium settings."

 

[davejnz]

I disagree with Fenner,not all C.jardenei are collected from intertidal seagrass areas,furthermore all corals have a remarkable ability to adapt to lighting/nutrient level.
I dont think the pathogen that these corals suffer from is dependent on a med-high light/low nutrient environment.Back in the day,when these corals were easy to keep,there were people keeping them in typical Berlin-style reefs so clearly healthy specimens can thrive in captivity under such conditions.I hope Eric B. continues with his research so we'll "understand why these animals often suffer in aquarium settings"

 

[cheeks69]

This is what my Elegance looked like in a 42 gal tank with 7 fish and nitrates running between 20 to 40 ppm with PC's for lighting.


This is what it looks like today with MH and nitrates have been 0 for the last 6 months.

 

[cheeks69]

I dont think the pathogen that these corals suffer from is dependent on a med-high light/low nutrient environment.Back in the day,when these corals were easy to keep,there were people keeping them in typical Berlin-style reefs so clearly healthy specimens can thrive in captivity under such conditions.

I agree that their current mortality rates has nothing to do with light or nutrients I believe it's a pathogen, but as evidenced in my pics there has been a decline in it's appearence in a lower nutrient environment IME.

 

[davejnz]

looks like in that pic yours is starting to show some of the symptoms.High nutrients doesn't mean high NO3,NO3 isn't usually abundant even in lagoons.IME with elegance and PC's,mine thrived for a coule months before it started showing symptoms.I also shipped a seemingly healthy Cat purchased at the same time to Eric B. and it started to decline around the same time period.There was a white,cottony growth at the tissue margin before i fixed mine to be sent to the E.C.P.Eric has said it might be a Beggatoia sp.[sp?]My belief is that these corals are getting exposed to this pathogen somewhere along the line and there is a critical period that must be reached before it becomes problematic.

 

[cheeks69]

In a closed system high nutrients wouldn't have a direct relation to NO3 levels? Also corals like the Elegance will get their food from direct absorption from nutrients in the water and from Fish pooping.

 

[cheeks69]

looks like in that pic yours is starting to show some of the symptoms.

He's only started to show these signs in the last couple of months for the first year it was doing very well. If mine was infected wouldn't it show signs in a shorter period of time ?

 

[davejnz]

I'm just saying that even in my high nutrient laggonal tank,PO4 and No3 are still undetectable.Many of the organics that make up such an environment aren't able to be tested for and much of it is in the substrate.

 

[davejnz]

He's only started to show these signs in the last couple of months for the first year it was doing very well. If mine was infected wouldn't it show signs in a shorter period of time ?

I wish i knew the answer,Most reports i've heard usually start showing symptoms within 3 months.

 

[cheeks69]

I don't know it just seems to be too much of a coincidence that since the nutrient levels have dropped my elegance has declined. I'm no expert just relating my personal experience.

 

[cheeks69]

Ron Shimek:

Specializations of shape and habitats are seen in other corals as well and are often related to habitat variables (Anthony, 2000; Anthony and Fabricius, 2000). Often reef aquarists absolutely ignore these specializations, and this undoubtedly contributes to the absurd mortalities seen in corals such as the elegance corals, Catalaphyllia jardinei and the various Goniopora species. Elegance corals are sand or mud dwelling animals often found in very turbid waters. They live buried in the sediments with their inflated polyps laying over the sediment surfaces. They are not adapted to be kept in turbulent or high current tanks, and especially if they are placed on or in rocks where their delicate tissues can be abraded against the rocks by the continuous variations in water flow. Similarly, Goniopora species are found in turbid, nutrient laden waters of coral reef lagoons and backwaters (Veron, 1986, 2000b; Peach, 1996; Borneman, 2001). They have been shown to eat all sorts of things ranging from various larger crab larvae to phytoplankton (Peach, 1996). They also are not adapted to the vigorous turbulent flow of a reef crest tank, but rather live in the gentle, more laminar current regimes of lagoonal areas.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rs/feature/index.htm