DSB Vs. BB Set-Up

[Craig Lambert]

As some of you know, I've been away from reefing for 2 years and am preparing to set-up my tank once again. One of the interesting things about this hobby is that it is in a constant state of change.

While I was away, it seems questions have been raised as to the long term viability of a DSB. When I set-up my reef 3 years ago one would have been told to sit in the corner and wear a "dunce cap" if they even suggested constructing a tank that didn't include a dsb. So what happened? Are dsb tanks crashing on a regular basis when they reach a certain age? Or has the dsb simply become the "scapegoat" for unexplained tank failures? Is the dsb on its way out? What would you do today if you were setting up your own new tank? I'm curious which system people would opt for if they were doing it all over again.

My plan is to stay with a DSB set-up. I admire its simplicity, and the logic of its use. I also find it more pleasing from the standpoint of asthetics. I doubt I can be persuaded to go the BB route, but I have to wonder if I'm the guy who is buying a VCR at the "close-out table" in 2000, while the rest of the world had been buying DVD players for the past 3 years.

Craig

 

[Woodstock]

What type of corals will you be keeping? Many SPS keepers (and some softie/lps keepers) seek to keep a very low nutrient & very high flow rate thus they opt for the BB route. Many LPS/Softie keepers settle for a SSB or DSB since their corals do well in higher nutrient & low-med flow rate tanks.

I recently went from BB to SSB (2-3") myself since I keep all LPS and softies. I intend on vacuuming the top 1" with every water change and am prepared to replace it in several years if needed....

 

[Reelheel]

Hi Craig,
I agree with Woodstock, I do think it makes a difference with what types of corals you're intending to keep. Honestly, I think it would be difficult to keep a sand bed with the types of crazy flow rates many of us try to acheive in SPS systems. I have not used a sand bed in my last few systems, and I'm happy overall, but I can say from experience that it takes some careful planning to get the "proper" setup for BB. I honestly think my favorite thing about BB is that it is so much easier to change/move/clean/re-aquascape than with a sand bed. I seem to constantly be changing systems, etc., so BB is perfect for that. The first time you move a huge system with a DSB you'll wish you had never seen sand...what a nightmare!
Having said all this, though, I think a tank with a DSB can be very successful, even semi-longterm; I've had them myself and I know of many tanks that are simply amazing utilizing a DSB.

 

[Reelheel]

Man, that post probably left you more confused than ever
In fact, I'm not sure which one I like the best anymore LOL.
Seriously, though, I really think you should choose the one you feel is best for you...I think too many people "go with the flow" so to speak, rather than what they are comfortable and confident with.

 

[Woodstock]

LOL! One thing to remember... you can always add sand later... or remove it... it's really easy. I've went DSB to BB and back... a few times...

 

[Witfull]

pick your poison, know its antidote and go from there~~

 

[Reelheel]

You guys said it SO much more succinctly...I guess I just like giving my fingers a workout LOL.

 

[Gina]

I tried talking my bf into going BB but, we compromised with a shallow sand bed. He likes the look of the sand on the bottom.

 

[Craig Lambert]

Thanks for the feedback. It's just interesting to me how this method suddenly gained popularity. I can see the benefit with a FOLR tank. As I said though, I'll stick with a dsb.

 

[forestal]

I think either is good, just whatever looks right... i was big on the DSB side for a while, but they are hard to truly maintain with seeding every 3-5 months with critters and other live sand...
Anthony Calfo had a post (cant' remember where) talking about even doing your best, the diversity in a dsb is still pretty poor compared to the reef, but the deep sand bed make s great way to keep nitrates down...a lot of folks have had long term success with dsb's, other havent...

i am wondering if old tank syndrome is more of a problem with dsb's if there has been overfeeding, not enough waste removal, not enough flow so the detritus is sinking into the sand...

my 2 cents, still on the fence

 

[Craig Lambert]

Reseeding every 3-5 months sounds excessive. I will say that I noticed a decrease in worms and pods over the year I had it set up. I seeded with a package from indo-pacific sea farms. Miricle mud, bristle worms, spagehetti worms etc..Maybe ordering a package from them on an annual basis would be the answer.

 

[jimeluiz]

Our dsb is now just over two years old and I am definitely struggling to keep it clean. A recent, persistant cyano carpet drove me to adding snails, boosting my hermit population and buying a canistr filter to vacuum the crap our of my sand (figuratively and literally!). Everything is back to clean/white but I'm going to order a booster from IPSF as well. Seems like I am having to manage the sandbed in a way I had not anticiapted. I thought the diversity of life in my dsb would maintain itself and thrive on its own. I'm confused why it would die off, as the cyano seems to indicate.

We love the look and I dread any major overhaul to take out the sand...

But as you say Craig - the popularity of dsb is definitely out of fashion.

 

[forestal]

well, the issue with reseeding is keeping the populations of inverts in the sand diverse, a constant struggle, hermits/crabs are animals that will eat the good guys in a seeded dsb, again, part of the struggle

my reef after much thought...cause i like the look of sand has a 3", deep enough to house critters and i did seed it , but not too deep to develop anoxic layer

 

[cheeks69]

I thought the diversity of life in my dsb would maintain itself and thrive on its own. I'm confused why it would die off, as the cyano seems to indicate.

The problem is Phosphates binding to the SB.

RHF:

There are, however, other possible sinks for phosphate. One is precipitation onto the surface of calcium carbonate, such as the sand beds that many people use. The absorption of phosphate from seawater onto aragonite is somewhat pH dependent, with the maximum binding taking place around pH 8.4 (see Millero’s link below), with less binding at lower and higher pH values. If the calcium carbonate crystal is not growing, then this process is reversible and the aragonite (or calcite) can act as a reservoir for phosphate. This reservoir may make it difficult to completely remove excess phosphate from a tank that has experienced very high phosphate levels, and may permit algae to continue to thrive despite cutting off all external phosphate sources. If you are experiencing an algae problem, it might even be a reason to want to keep the pH at the high end of normal (say, 8.3 to 8.5) and not at the lower end (7.8 to 8.1). The relationship of CaCO3 to the phosphate cycle is being studied by Frank Millero and his group in relation to the Florida Bay ecosystem (Millero's studies). If the CaCO3 crystals are growing, as they often are in some parts of our systems, then I’d expect some of this phosphate to get buried and locked into the CaCO3 crystals.


A side effect of the adsorption of phosphate onto aragonite may well be the reported impact of phosphate on calcification of corals. The presence of phosphate may inhibit the formation of calcium carbonate crystals via surface adsorption, and this effect may very well be the factor that inhibits calcification of corals at high phosphate levels. If true, then I would speculate that anything that you do to lower the free PO4-- concentration may limit this impact. Such factors would include normal or lower pH (shifting the PO4-- toward HPO4--) and normal or higher calcium and magnesium (because they complex free PO4-- ).

 

[Yarr]

BB all the way for me. I will never go back. I find it much easier to maintain.

but whatever works best for you.

 

[aqujoe247]

I'm setting up a 55gal reef, and after reading this am really considering doing BB, my question is how will it take for the tank to cycle with established LR and is this OK for a beginner doing soft coral? I've seen the LFS use those crate strips to keep LR of the bottom is this how a BB is set up?

 

[Little Luey]

I now have a 20 gal and it is BB. I like the fact that I can see what I need to vacum from the bottom, sand seems to hide all the poop and dirt in my old tank, and I always had hair algie before, now it has been 4 months and the HA is nowhere in my tank.
All I did was put a cutting board on the bottom for the rock.