DOTW - Skimming

[Witfull]

there have been a few threads on which skimmer i should get etc...so i thought we could pull things together into one area and discuss skimming. what they are meant to do, how they do it, what to look for in a skimmer, pesonnal experiences. ....this should keep yall busy while im at work,,,ill add my thoughts whan i return.

 

[Curtswearing]

I just read on another board that someone doesn't consider them necessary equipment. Does anyone else feel this way and why?

Great thread Wit!!!

 

[wooddood]

curt i have heard that also. i know a while back the people at GARF were testing half of thier tanks with skimmers and half without so maybe they have posted test results. i have'nt been on there for a while so i'll check it out. personally though i would recomend using one. i do 24/7. i'll see what i can dig up.

 

[BoomerD]

I've also read threads where a lot of people, especially those who use refugiums or Mudd filters don't use skimmers. They may be right, but I think that a skimmer removes enough nasty stuff from the water, to make it a valuable addition to any tank set-up. The segment of the hobby that is being skipped by hardware manufacturers is the nano reef. There are no GOOD skimmers available for the smaller tanks, except a few air-stone models, which work,, but IMO, if a manufacturer were to come out with a good SMALL hang-on skimmer that would actually work well, they could make a killing...

Me, I believe that you can't over skim your water. Any trace elements you remove will be replenished with your next water change anyway. I don't see how anyone can think that all the crud that I dump out of my skimmers collection cups could be good for the tank...

 

[sfxer02]

I don't use a skimmer, I am running a eco system set-up so far so good. I will keep you guys poseted on hwo everything turns out. I do have a Urchin Pro on hand though just in case somehting happens to where I need one!!


Great thread!


Tony

 

[wooddood]

cool i think this is gonna be a great thread, thanks all for the info so far good job.

 

[Scooterman]

The guys at the LFS been running a MUD set-up for the last two years, he is BB in the main tank & has no skimmers on none of the reef tanks, only on the FO tanks without the MUD.
He replaced half just after two years complaining about algae for the very first time, rarely does he even clean the glass.

All this makes me say umm, every two years dump half the MUD and just do WC every few months, nothing else, when you dump the MUD you dump the collected waste I guess.

 

[Woodstock]

Call me a clean freak if ya want but I enjoy dumping out the scum that my aquaC pro gets from my tank! I have several large fish in my 90 gal which I tend to feed on the heavy side, so I would not consider going without a skimmer. I also use carbon 24/7 and perform 15% water changes every 7 to 10 days.

So far this set up has worked well for my aquarium but I am open to better ideas if there are any out there!

Great thread!

 

[Scooterman]

Can someone post details pics of a becket & how it works, I'd sure like to have a better understanding of them, including where do you get them?

Thanks

 

[sorcerer]

Scott,
This link has some good discussion of the workings of the beckett injector.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-03/fm/
HTH

 

[Scooterman]

THANKS

 

[cheeks69]

I think a skimmer is an absolute necessity if you have a heavy bio-load if you don't and are careful about feeding then you can get by without one as long as you do regular water changes. JMO

 

[wooddood]

i forgot to mention earlier that i'm in the process of helping my lfs owner setup a saltwater dislay tank and he is going to be running a mudd filter. it's an aquaclear aquatics mudd filter and seem very interesting to me. i know that other people have said they use them also and it's not a new idea but i know they say you dont need to run a skimmer as the same thing the say about the eco system tony is running. so i'm going to really keep an eye on how it does and will let you all know it also comes with a small light with a white and an actinic bulb to be ran over the mudd area and i'm trying to talk him into planting mangroves in it. i'll keep you posted.

 

[sfxer02]

Yeah dave I want to put some mangroves in my also!! You think I can mix those with caulerpa?


Tony

 

[EdgeKrusher]

I have a CPR BakPak 2R on my 12 gallon nano. It works very well IMO. I wouldn't have a Nano without a skimmer, it just seems like a recepie for disaster. I'm emptying the skimmer cup every 3 days or so of this thick green/black nasty goo, it's awesome!

 

[wooddood]

tony that i dont know but i'm sure someone will answer this soon. good luck buddy

 

[NaH2O]

Just a little supplemental material for those talking about mud systems and macros.

Analysis of Ecosystem's Miracle Mud

What is your favorite Macro and why?

 

[addict]

Well, the only thing I can really offer on skimmers is a suggestion for sizing... most skimmers are overrated for their actual ability.
Rather than look to a manufacturer rating, look at the pump... normally you'll want 3x-4x tank volume through the skimmer per hour for maximum efficiency... so if you have a 120g tank, you'll want a skimmer with a pump rated at 500gph or more. (4x120g = ~500gph).
Of course the pump will probably be producing less than it's rated capacity being that it's also pumping air into the skimmer (at least on venturi models).

I'm not sure if this also holds true with beckett skimmers, since they need a more powerful pump than most venturi models.

 

[Witfull]

good thoughts everyone.

let me start with what is our goal when dealing with waste? its to render it harmless to our tank. there are several ways of doing it. one is to biologically break it down into nitrogen gas and inert detrius.(DSB,Mudd) another is by consumpsion. have other creatures eat the waste thereby bonding the organics into their bodies. (detrivore kits. macro algaes) and from physical removal. (mechanical filtration,skimmers)

personally, i do not think that that the DSB/Mudd system as long term, in the fact that waste is being held onto. every tank is different and so no schedule can de adhered to,as more and more waste accumulates its functionality exponentially degrades and when saturation occurs it can suddenly result in a crash/hair bloom/cyno outbreak, which leads to headaches to say the least.

consumpsion will only bond some of the inorganics for the life of the creature, and they only process a fraction of the organics, leaving their waste to other creatures to consume. with macros harvesting is possible and is has many benefits.

this leaves physical removal. micro pads/socks do wonders of a tank to remove particulate matter, i believe in them. but allot of waste can flow right through them, this leads us to the skimmer.

personally i feel that the more i can remove before it breaks down, the less stress i put on the system. i can rely less on bacteria, no detrivore kits to continuously restock. less bioload on my tank consuming oxygen, allowing more for the stuff i want to keep.

lets keep this tube bubbling....

 

[NaH2O]

Let's face facts, not everyone wants a bare bottom tank. It is important for those that choose to have a substrate, or other forms of filtration (i.e. Miracle Mud, macros, etc) to understand their function and have appropriate husbandry. Proper set-up and maintenance is important. For example, Miracle Mud - the website shows how to set it up, and also recommends changing out 1/2 of the mud every couple of years (to go off of memory). I can also argue filter socks have their own issues....having a sock full of gunk is just as bad as having a rotting area of detritus in the tank....the husbandry is important.

On with the skimmer....I'll give a little info on how the skimmer actually removes the organic compounds. Dissolved Organic Compounds (DOCs) are removed by protein skimmers. DOCs are the result of biological materials that have broken down. They are a bipolar molecules.....which means they have at least one atom that likes water, and at least one atom that likes air. What happens is these molecules see the surface of the bubble and want to stick to it. So, you end up with a bubble that is covered in these. Picture a sticky lollipop and roll it around on the carpet....all the fibers that stick to the lollipop represent the DOCs stuck to the lollipop/bubble. As the bubbles rise to the top, more of the DOC accumulate together creating the foam that ends up in the cup. The longer the bubble remains in touch with the DOCs, the more will be removed. Think about the lollipop again, and the longer you roll it in the carpet, the more fibers will be stuck. Also, the longer the bubble is in contact with the DOCs the better chance less "sticky" molecules will have a chance to "stick". There are a number of things that skimmers remove beyond DOCs. Left over food, bacteria, planktons, trace elements, metabolites, volatile organic compounds (VOCs), and particulate organic compounds (POCs).

What are the different types of skimmers? Beckett , needlewheel/aspirating, downdraft, venturi injector, counter-current ...am I missing any?

What makes a skimmer work more efficiently.....height? Width? Flow rate?