Cycles in Reef tanks

[Paul B]

I just baked a bunch of corn muffins and while they are cooling I thought of something. (Yes I like to bake and do other things, But only Manly things, shoot me)
I was looking at some threads and I realize there is something that goes on in our tanks that is never discussed.
Cycles.
If you keep a tank long enough you will notice these cycles. 5 years may not be long enough. My tank has been getting cycles for it's entire life, some cycles last a few months and some last a few years. There are times my tank was filled with leather corals and SPS, then it will all shrink with in a week or two and SPS corals will grow like crazy. In a couple of years they may die back and hair algae will take over, then flatworms or Godzilla Larvae.
I believe these cycles are caused by three different things. The first is coral wars. Corals live in cycles that are controlled by the moon. In most homes the corals can't "see" the moon, only the TV so I assume they get confused, especially if you watch a lot of Lady GaGa video's. Corals exude chemicals to either attract other similar corals to settle near them and other chemicals to keep competing corals away. Those chemicals stay in the water for varying amounts of time but occasionally it is too much for competing corals and they either shrink or die. Then something else may take over that space and when it grows large enough it may exude it's own chemicals and kill the SPS.
This is the reason for many of the problems in tanks that have been running fine for many years. (yes, skimmers probable remove some of these chemicals but work with me here)

The next cause of cycles are from bacteria. Bacteria run our tanks, not us. Bacteria are very good at what they do as long as we don't interfere with what they do by adding silly chemicals like antibiotics, copper, Prizapro, napalm etc.
But bacteria are living things with all of the problems we have. OK, maybe not "all" the problems, I don't think they get acne, but they can be infected by viruses as we are.
Depending on the Virus some strains of bacteria may die while others may just lose their ability to dance. But whatever happens, it effects the water and not always in a way we want.

The next thing is algae. Many of us wrongly think of algae as a bad thing. But if there was no algae your parents would never have been born and if they were not born, you may not have a job. Algae is a good thing. It makes oxygen, cleans pollutants from the water, and adds some chemicals. Algae also grows inside corals and most corals can't live with out it. If you succeed in eliminating all of your nutrients, you will also eliminate your corals. Adding chemicals to eliminate algae, bacteria or viruses is almost never a good idea as those cycles have a way of working themselves out.
After many years of tweeking I learned that sea water is very stable as long as I don't mess with it, and I never do.
I find these cycles interesting.

I forgot when I took this picture but it must have been in the late 80s or 90s. That giant leather grew in a few months from an inch to a foot high. Then after a few years shrunk down until is shriveled away.



SPS will grow for a few years, then die and allow something else to grow in it's place.



This giant mushroom grew from fingernail size to 10" across in weeks. After a few years it disappeared.



No one wants this. I also don't remember when this was and it was probably caused by something in the NSW I changed the water with. But whatever caused it, I did nothing to eliminate all this algae. I didn't do anything because that was the healthiest the tank ever was with everything spawning and the corals looking great. When that cycle ended in a few weeks and the algae left on it's own, the water was perfect. Algae knows how to purify water and if I would have added some sort of chemical to eliminate it I am certain the tank would have had all sorts of problems.
I probably just pulled it out and ran my diatom filter a few times.



One day I had this.



And before I knew it, I had this.



So I am trying to say, don't get crazy when these things happen. Cycles happen much quicker in new tanks and as a tank ages get much farther apart.

 

[mr_tap_water]

Hi Paul
Interesting read The way you look at things,
This is just IMO from what you have said and nothing else, first of all I can't see how you can compare The sea with adding seawater to your tank I do not believe it hold the same way as it does in the sea as you know the Sea has this on ways Of keeping things stable ,
with its own way of filtering and in its own way of skimming and replenishing keeping bacteria levels stable, and it's so vast ,
Cycling the tank starts the beneficial bacteria to grow once the cycle has finished The beneficial bacteria Will only to continue to multiply as it is needed to deal with things.
Chemical warfare does not build up unlike in our tanks, which brings me back to our tanks I don't believe Chemical warfare in our tanks is nowhere near as bad as a lot of people think unless you do no water changes are use any filter media as there are so many things now we can use to take the chemical warfare out within a very short time Active carbon for instance is just one way so if you was skimming as well along with phos removers it Will take the majority of unwonted chemicals out along with water changes which is also dilutes The unwonted chemicals,
With algae you say it's a good thing in some sense yes it is and I agree with some of the things you say but like a lot of us that struggle with nutrients too much of a good thing Will cause problems in Our tanks especially with a majority of corals don't like high Phos levels as too much algae is usually a sign of high phos levels this is why in our tanks we have to control this unlike nature that looks after itself most of the time.

Like yourself I also used to have salt water tanks in the 70s with under gravel filter t8s with the likes of power twisters,tufa rock, protein skimmer with a wooden diffuser , but never really worked ,and never used to worry about any stats The only test kits I used then was just the ones you need to cycle and that was it and just got on with things Fish only worked fine doesn't mean The water quality was perfect and probably far from it.

When I look back now to me with all the technology we have now all we've done is make things more complicated to a degree unlike yourself still doing the majority of the basics Which I have to admire.[emoji846]

Please don't quote me on to what I've said it's just the way I understand it.


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[Paul B]

Mr_Tap_Water, thank you for posting. I think I had some cycles from the sea water I use from New York. I used to use water from the Long Island Sound which is full of nutrients and pollutants. I don't use that any more but sometimes collect in the Atlantic. Those minerals along with the plankton and bacteria changed the dynamics of my tank to cause a cycle. I am making this up as I go along because I can't prove it and that was in the early 70s when I didn't know much of anything.
The bacteria in our tanks is in a constant state of flux. Strains grow and die to be taken over by other types just like different algae does. My tank has had every type of algae grow and die all on it's own with no help from me.
I still think coral wars are a huge part of our tanks. In the sea corals keep other corals away and "invite" like corals to settle near them. And the sea is constantly moving and pushing those chemicals away. But even with all the water flow of the sea, their pheromones still work as they must be very strong. Sometimes I can smell the corals in my tank and sometimes I can't. They exude a distinctive, not so pleasant aroma.
I personally don't use carbon or anything else except my skimmer with ozone.
It is also true that algae needs nutrients to grow, but it also needs something else. I am not exactly sure what that is and neither does anyone else. We think we know, but we don't. My nitrates are 160 and my phosphorous is 2.0. I should have algae growing up the walls, but I don't have any growing in my tank. Why is that? I don't know.
But all of a sudden, I may get a massive growth of algae for no reason. That has not happened in 20 years but it used to happen often when my nitrates were below 10. Why? I don't know. These cycles happen for no likely reason, but they do occur and it causes many aquarists to go nuts or get out of the hobby.
We always want to add something, change the water, remove something, raise the salinity, lower the heat, add more light, lower the flow etc. Most of the time, we can't fix the problem which is the reason for all the problem threads that are the majority of threads on fish sites. The cycles, whatever causes them are what is the cause and we don't yet know what to do about it.
But the good news is that they all even out on their own as long as we don't add a lot of silly things, which is what we usually do.

 

[mr_tap_water]

If I lived near the sea I would definitely try seawater,
I've never used ozone but i've heard it's meant to keep the water crystal clear and saps any free living organisms in fact I believe it keeps the water practically sterile, weather that's true or not,
And surprises me that you use it being that you use seawater would that not kill all the plankton and any goodness that is in the sea water you put into your tank.
But being you say you seen your tank transform since using seawater doesn't sound like that's the case.


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[Paul B]

The ozone only oxidizes anything that goes through the skimmer and I doubt it kills anything larger than a bacteria as I have pods living in my skimmer and they seem fine. If I turn over a rock in my tank I will see amphipods, worms and all sorts of life just like in the sea.
I have not put any NSW in my reef in over a year.

 

[Paul B]

I was out in my boat this week and as I was eating a raw oyster and drinking a "Land Shark" beer something hit me. I mean after the seagull pooped on my head. The bay where I do most of my boating in the Long Island Sound also goes through cycles that last a few years.
Many years ago when I was a teenager, me and Lincoln would go fishing for flounders and for every flounder we caught we caught 2 or 3 sand sharks. Then eventually the sand sharks were replaced with bergalls, nasty little cunners that steal your bait and they are too small and bony to eat. Then the bergalls were replaced by porgies, which were a good thing as I kind of like eating them, not as much as I like flounders. But the flounders disappeared to be replaced by sea robins. I know some people eat those, but I would rather eat the seagull.

On the mud flats I used to collect steamer clams which aren't to bad to eat and they were extremely common. I haven't seen one of them in years except on my plate at a restaurant a few weeks ago.
The tide pool I go to to collect amphipods was always filled with hermit crabs. When my Daughter was young, I used to tell her we were going to Hermit Crab City. I have not seen a hermit crab there in a few years.
The only thing that never changes is horseshoe crabs. They are always there and everywhere although you can't eat them. If you could eat them, there would be none to be found.

The last time I went fluke fishing I got 18 of them. That was about 7 years ago, now the only fluke I see is in the Coney Island Aquarium.

For about 15 years I dove for lobsters and every dive I would get my limit of 6 of them. The lobsters all disappeared in one season and no one knows why.
Some years like two years ago I caught 80 blue claw crabs on one day. Last year I saw one, this year I see some young ones so maybe they are coming back.

I used to see Supermodels on the boats al the time, but in the last 3 or 4 years all I see is Rosanne Barr clones.
Of course I ain't getting any better looking either which is probably why the Supermodels are staying away.
But cycles are normal in our tanks and in the sea.