Cyano out of control!!!!

jrf1175

jrf1175

Member
I know there are 100's of threads on all the forums about cyano. I have read almost all of them and tried just about everything!

A bit of system info:

Running phosban for a month now with RowaPhos.
2x 6045 for circulation + return
Skimmer Skimming at a good rate
Runnign RO/DI water
There is natural light in the room, but the blinds remain closed most of the day.

I have treated (before livestock we added) with Red Slime Remover with no positive results

I have siphoned as much cyano as I can during numerous water changes from rocks and sand. However, you can never get it all...

Water parameters are all good with very minimal nitrates and phosphates.

Only have 2 Oc. Clowns and 4 Green Chromis. Feeding ORA pellets and cyclop-eeze wafers twice a day and definitely not in excess. I am currently soaking some feed in some RO/DI water and will run some tests on the water to see how much the feed could be contributing.

The problem is my cyano is still growing of out of control! Her are a few photos 3 days after a big water change and removal of cyano via siphon.

I am really at a loss for other possible solutions????

So I have a few other questions...

Should I continue to remove it during water changes? I know this is know to help and will remove the nutrients in the bacteria....BUT - if I let is grow should it not max out and being to die off once it has consumed all the available nutrients? Removing it hasn't worked yet and so many water changes are costing me a fortune in salt.

I'm currently using Reef Crystals salt mix...any one have experience with this? I am thinking of changing to Tropic Marine to see if that helps.

Regarding lighting. I bought my unit used and haven't replaced the MH lights. Could this be a major contributor if they are on the end of there "lifecycle" If so, what is a good brand of 250W MHs. I think I am running MegaChrome now, but i know they are $$!!!!

Any, and I mean any help here would be greatly appreciated! I am beginning to lose my mind and confidence here and not really enjoying myself with this right now...it just seems I can't win!

As soon as I run my Tests on the feed rinse water I will post.

Cheers
J
 

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Woodstock

Woodstock

The Wand Geek was here. ;)
RS STAFF
My guess is you are adding po4 via the food and the cyano is abosorbing it/growing almost instantly.
Keep running the rowaphos and replace as needed to keep the po4 levels low. Keep doing regular water changes, siphoning out the cyano each time (between water changes also).
Keep in mind that the cyano is very quick to absorb the po4 and nitrates and is an excellent export if you remove it on a regular basis.
..just don't stop :)
 
jrf1175

jrf1175

Member
Thanks Woodstock.

I just tested some RO water that I have soaked feed in for about 10 minutes (in a little tea strainer). I can't get a a good read due to some cloudiness in the test vial, but it is REALLY HIGH. It looks like my feed is significantly contributing to my problem!

So I guess rinsing before feeding is a must...as you have mentioned before if I recall....I just didn't think it would be so much of a contributor, especially since I am not adding that much feed.

Are there some good feeds that have significantly less phosphates?

I think i will give my roaw-phos a change. It has been a month, but I am guessing it has been working overtime!

Thanks again!
 
Raf

Raf

Active Member
That or changing your food...

I would also try testing your water with another Phosphate tester to rule out your is giving false readings. RowaPhos is an excellent product, running carbon may also help with organics. What skimmer are you running, you may want to adjust it to skim wet fro a few weeks. Any other mech filters in the tank? Is this a coral tank or a FO? You can also try to adjust the flow in the tank, not increase or decrease jut change the way the water moves in the aquarium, this has helped me in the past.
 
jrf1175

jrf1175

Member
Hey Raf,

I am running ELOS test kits, so I think they are pretty accurate. Do you have any suggestion on feed that is lower in phosphates?

I was thinking about running carbon as well and chain it with my other reactor.

I am running a Euro-Reef RS100 and it is skimming pretty wet right now.

No other filters right now, and I have a open/folded brain and a small frogspawn at the moment.

I have adjusted and increased flow so far with no noticable affect.

Just changing my Rowa Phose Media now.
 
jrf1175

jrf1175

Member
Woodstock,

One other question...

You sugegst removing the cyano even when I am not doing a water change. How would you suggest doing that? If I siphon it I will be losing water, and without a water change how would I get around this? I am a bit confused here.

thanks
Jayme
 
Woodstock

Woodstock

The Wand Geek was here. ;)
RS STAFF
Two ways to do that. One, siphon it into your sump filtering it though a micron sock; or two, use a canister filter with floss or micron filter.

..humm... or if you don't have any of the above, you could siphon it out and into a bucket using a large fish net for a filter then pour the 'filtered' water back into the tank.
 
jrf1175

jrf1175

Member
Thanks woodstock!

I will pick up a few filter bags this weekend and filter into the sump though it...that is a great idea.
 
BoomerD

BoomerD

Well-Known Member
To remove the cyano, you have to find the source of it's nutrition. Odds are, it's in the food you are feeding the tank. Almost ALL frozen foods are treated with phosphates as part of the processing, and most flake foods are high in phosphates as well. Running Phosban or Rowa-Phos is a good way to eliminate existing phosphates, but it's a long-term process, not something that will happen in one month.
 
blue_eyes53813

blue_eyes53813

Well-Known Member
I just wanted to add that twice a day feeding for so few fish might be adding to the algae as well..Once a day would be plenty. Looks like from the picture that it is near the sand bed. Increase the flow lower in the tank will help alot as well. In my 265 I have a terrible time getting good flow near the sand bed and I had algae problems too. Do you use a powerhead to clean off the liverock? If the pores of the rocks become clogged, It cant do its job of filtration.. Before your next water change. Clean off the rocks very good, Run a filtersock for about 30 minutes and keep the flow going through the tank. Than do the water change. I would do this every time you do a water change for the next few months and see if it helps.

I didnt notice .. How often and how much % are your water changes? I did 20% weekly and sprayed the heck out of the rocks. Also did a thorough cleaning of all filters ,sponges, Everything... Every Other day if not daily.

It is very hard to get rid of, But you can do it.
 
jrf1175

jrf1175

Member
I have been doing anywhere from 10-20% a week. I find blowing off the rocks with a 6045 doesn't work too well...I use a toothbrush sometimes too. It is covered in the sandbed as well....but I can see good water movement over it.

Thanks for all the advice, I will just keep at it and start rinsing my food and only feeding once a day.
 
sasquatch

sasquatch

Brunt of all Jokes~
PREMIUM
This is from A Thiel free library, hope this helps. Steve

Let us take another look at what happens in the aquarium :

* Any of the conditions that adds organic compounds to the water exists in your situation and probably more than one is at work, not just a single one. When water chemistry gets out of hand, the causes are more often than not, multiple.
* The skimmer removes "some" of this dissolved organic material but more is actually produced than the skimmer is removing. This is a very common occurance. Either the load is high or the skimmer too small, or both. In either case, DOC will start to build up.
* Given enough time, the amount of dissolved organic material reaches a stage and a concentration where the amount present starts giving rise to the appearance of red slime algae because there are now enough nutrients present to allow this growth to occur. In this respect you may wish to consult "Organic Chemicals in Waters" James W. Moore and S. Ramamoorthy, Springer Verlag, 1984, ISBN 0-387-96034-1 (cost $50.00).
* When the increase continues more and more cyanos will grow since what is being removed is less than what is added to the tank water.
* This accounts for the growth that seems to rapidly increase once it takes off even though you may be siphoning algae out and changing water.
* It should be noted that the slime produced by these cyanobacteria is just about pure organic material and decomposes, adding more organic matter to the tank.
* Of course the amount that decomposes is replaced by a new sheath of slime, and the process just continuous on and on. One dies off and decomposes, adds organics to the water, and immediately a new one develops underneath (and at the same time) that soon dies and adds more organics, a new one grows, etc. You get the picture. DOC keeps rising and rising.
* Organics are not the only matter involved in the growth of blue-green algae (Cyanobacteria or red slime or whatever else you want to call it actually). Iron is another nutrient, but to a lesser degree than DOC or dissolved organic carbon (organic material dissolved in the water). I mentioned an interesting book earlier. Another easier one that you may wish to read or perhaps refer to if you can find it at a library is: "Inorganic, Organic and Biological Chemistry" by Philip S. Chen, Second Ed., The Barnes and Noble Outline Series, 1979. ISBN 0-06-460182-x (originally published by Harper and Row).
* Those of you who have dealt with red and other slime algae have gone through this and know exactly what I am talking about.
* Once the growth of red slime algae starts, rapid intervention is necessary or the whole tank will soon be covered with them and the growths will choke what is underneath, often killing life forms. Life forms that die off then lead to more decomposition and more organic matter being added to the water.

In essence, what I have found is that when the amount of dissolved organic matter builds up to a high level, sooner or later (usually sooner than later) red slime or blue-green algae will start to grow.

The key then, is to keep this amount low. This is achieved through skimming but may need to be supplemented by other means, especially if you have red slime algae present in the tank already.
 
jrf1175

jrf1175

Member
Sasquatch,

Thanks, that is a great explanation and no doubt describes what I am going through; however, it only describes the problem and only touches on the solution "Rapid Intervention". Since I have been dealing with this for a while now I think I am past the rapid part.

I will start to remove all visible cyano on a daily basis by siphoning it through a filter bag as Woodstock as described. The sand bed will probably only get cleaned during the weekly water changes.

I will also rinse my feed...I did this today and it not as east to pull soggy flakes out of a strainer! You would think feed companies would try to use a different preservative since phosphates are a issue with aquariums!

I think I will also start to run carbon in a second Phosban Reactor. I know my skimmer may be a bit undersized, but I don't (think) I have too much of a bio load on it right now. I was also told my my LFS (with 20+ yrs experience that I should be fine). I have a RS135 but my sump would not allow for the extra height. Ive found my other option....a bubble king 200 or so...but those run about 800 bucks!

Not only is this hobby breaking my bank, but it's breaking my mind and my confidence too!
 
Raf

Raf

Active Member
You asked me what food to feed. IME, NLS(New Life Spectrum) is a good option IF you want to feed dry foods. They make a marine pellet that is ultra low in phosphates. I would also switch over to small pellets and only feed as much as the fish consume in a very short amount of time. If pellets are falling to the sand and staying there for more than a minute, you are feeding too much or the fish rather eat something else. I would also feed more frozen rather than dry(less phosphates), make sure you thaw the food in a dish with water then strain the food in a net and rinse well under water, this will also help lower the phosphates in the feed.

Another method of removing the red slime without taking water out is to scrub it off the rocks with a brush, then take a net and make several swoops to pick it up from the water column. Make sure your pumps are off as it will make it easier to collect the free floating cyano.

HTH and good luck, I have been through this many times before. :)
 
sasquatch

sasquatch

Brunt of all Jokes~
PREMIUM
Rapid intervention to me in your case would be, siphon when you see it, stop feeding entirely for a week or two, start dripping kalk now, get a sump sock and change or clean daily, increase flow. Ignore your phos and trate kits as they are useless right now and if at all possible get some macro algae going because this IS going to happen again and cut your photo period, try taking 2 hours a day out around the middle 4 hrs on 2 hrs off 4 hrs on, I do this for planted freshwater tanks and it really messes up its cycle.Steve
 
jrf1175

jrf1175

Member
Stop feeding entirely? Would everything be OK for 2 weeks?

What would the benefit of dripping Kalk for controlling cyano?

I do have some macro algae (Chaeto) in my sump that I added a month or so ago.

I'll try to photo period change too.

Thanks again everyone, you rock!
 
swissgaurd

swissgaurd

Member
as i recall you had cyno before adding fish.

what i have done in the past.
change direction of flow.
use a turkey baster on rocks, trying to keep algae suspended .
dripped kalkwasser.
changed skimmer from a dry skimate to a wet skimmate.
addition nassurious snails.
a black sea cucumber.
shorten length of time lights are on.
patients.

i can almost bet that its the salt mix.

vic
 
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