Crap! Hosed by the landlord!

[Maxx]

The landlord wont let me set up the large cube tank that I want, but I am allowed to set up my 58 gallon Oceanic. I now have some extra money from the budget, but I want to buy w/ an eye towards upgrading tank size in the future.
Everything I've bought so far has pretty much been along those lines....(250 W MH lighting, MRC calcium reactor set.....wanted to go Geo, but for $250 for everything but a PH monitor, couldnt pass on it). I already have the tank, and I've built a stand for it.
I will be building the canopy as well.
I will be buying an ETSS protein skimmer and an Iwaki pump to run it, (skimmers dont "wear out" and I cant honestly see how overskimming will cause that big a deal)...
The tank will be BB, (Starboard) and will contain SPS, clams and my LTAs.
Basically my big concern here is flow.....
The tank is glass, and I will be drilling at least one 1 1/2 inch hole for a center overflow along the back wall, but I would like to limit the number of holes in the tank.
The tank's dimensions are 36Lx18Wx21H. because its such a relatively small tank, I am limited from several solutions....
Cant do Tunze streams.....was told it would make a small water park.
Tank is too small to justify a Motorized Ball Valve.....
Oceans Motions wavemaker would be a nightmare of plumbing, and not something I want to deal w/ in this situation.....
I've heard way to many stories of SQWDS going bad to put my faith in them.
Basically, I'm looking at powerheads....
I noticed that Reef Addict has his "Tower of Power" (8 Maxi Jet 1200s) on a Natural Wave Timer.
Here is a link to his photo....about a quarter of the way down the page...
I know these are rough on powerheads, but replacing powerheads periodically is the most workable option I have right now.
So here is my first schematic...basically a smaller "Tower of Power".

The Maxi jet 900's run 230 GPH, the Maxi Jet 1200 does 295 GPH...I would have the PH's along the overflow and place them on the wave maker...the PH's along the bottom would be on constantly in order to keep detritus from building up under the rockwork.
Comments, advice, laughter at my expense????
Any thoughts as to how the PH's should be angled?? I was basically planning on having the 1200's face forward....the rest???
Nick

 

[Witfull]

Nick, talk to the LL in uniform...maybe intimidate him a bit...lol looks like a lot of flow. is the wavemaker a softstart? and also you will only need to replace the impellors not the whole PH. and its been a long time since ive killed an impeller except for a broken fin.

but just remember, you could always move to somewhere where the LL will let you have the tank of your dreams..(Curts garage?) or become your own LL and buy a house....no wait, then you wont have the $$ for the tank....trust me,,,,lolololol

 

[Maxx]

Wit,
No dice on the soft start.....In fact premium aquatics only reccomends Maxi jets for this thing...http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?#den_dspy_review
Ya think its too much flow?
I got a PM from Reefer Addict about this critter. He told me that the max number of powerheads he has running at any one time is 6....
That is alot of flow though.......hmmmm....suggestions?
Oh...I've known the landlord since BC, (Before the Corps).
If I didnt intimidate him as an infanctry Marine, being a cop aint gonna frighten him too much...
Nick

 

[mps9506]

Have you thought about a Seaswirl? I know they seem pricey, but IMO it's one of the better things I have bought for my reeftank, it kicks the stuffing outta running powerheads and a wavemaker like I used to (I still have two powerheads on a timer but they are going out the door when I get a 1 inch SS and a closed loop)
Right now I have a 40 breeder (36x18x15)with around 800gph going through a 3/4inch SS plus two MJ 1200's (nozzles sliced off) on a timer. I want to add another ~1000-1200gph through a 1 inch seaswirl.
BTW becareful with the LTA's and anything else, they get very big and will sting your sps. And if you are going BB the LTA's won't be too happy not being able to attach their foot through the substrate, may cause them to move around quite a bit more.
Mike

 

[Maxx]

Yeah, Ive thought about SeaSwirls......I've also known a couple of people who've complained that they break pretty easy.
The more I think about it, the more I'm probably gonna ditch the powerheads and go w/ one of these.... www.oceansmotions.com
I was wanting to steer away from them simply becase of the plumbing involved and how that would be all in the tank...but lets face it, powerheads aint pretty either. I just want to know how much head pressure I can expect to lose from the unit so I can figure out how much I'll lose total w/ the plumbing and elbows etc....I know I'll need to upsize the pump, but I'm fine w/ that.
Nick

 

[mps9506]

Seaswirl does have good customer service IMO, just gotta keep the units clean.
I like the OceanMotions units from what I see on the net, but I agree I don't like all the plumbing involved. If I can get away with just two seaswirls in my tank, then I will be happy with that. My girlfriend would not like to see the octopus of pipes coming outta the oceansmotions unit in the living room, she already hates the protein skimmer (I will admit the look and smell of a 3 foot lifereef in the livingroom probably isn't the best idea).
If I had a fishroom I would have that unit though, just because it would make the room look cool Espcially the 8 way unit.
Let us know how it goes.
Mike

 

[Maxx]

I just some great info on a Maxi Jet modification...
check this out. For a better visual demonstration, move the mouse cursor over the pic of the running maxi jet in the tank.....
Here is another great link to a thread about the mods......
I also just found out that the Oceans motions unit causes about as much head loss as a single 90 degree elbow, (according to the manufacturer who responded to my question here.
I have a lot of stuff to figure out now.
Thinking about an 8 way OceansMotions, (plumbing mess and all...sigh) and a couple of Maxi jets cut and modified like that for blowing along the bottom of the tank to keep crap afloat til the skimmer gets it.....
Nick

 

[addict]

Wow... those oceansmotions devices sure are pricey! I like how they call the 4-way the 'economical' unit... at a $199 pricetag.

While I've seen the oceansmotions products before, I still think they're too new to be a 'proven' product... I keep looking at the metal motor casing and wondering how it's going to stand up to corrosion.

You can put together quite a wavemaking system using the NW timer and powerheads for $199... and you won't need an external pump and plumbing on top of that...

Ultimately the decision is up to you... but I really haven't found that the powerheads detract from the look of my tank... they're just another part of the whole.

Oh, and I did a bit of research (i.e. I looked at the front of my wavetimer ), and each of the switched outlets will handle 100w.
So, that's 5 MJ-1200s (at 20w each) or 11 MJ-900s (at 8.5w each)... it looks like it would run the powerhead system you have designed without a problem.

Good luck in whatever you choose.

 

[Witfull]

interesting idea with the PH, why didnt i think of that, i love my dremel.

 

[mps9506]

I've always run my maxijets with the nozzles cut off. When you run on a timer it actually switches the direction of the flow since the impellar turns a different direction each time you cut it on. Works really well.
I still like the SS though I replaced the outlet on mine with a 1 inch 45degree elbow. blows water more on the corals than with the 90degree elbow and locline fitting it came with.
Mike

 

[NaH2O]

the 4-way the 'economical' unit... at a $199 pricetag.

It's economical compared to a motorized ball valve I actually am very interested in the Oceans Motions product, and will be paying attention to how it works out. Seems like a decent product to me.

 

[addict]

Oh, you'll get no argument from me on that front... I've watched the little videos at their site and it does look quite compelling...
Anything that has moving parts IMO really needs some long-term testing to see just how long it will hold up under normal usage, especially in the treacherous saltwater environment.
I felt the same way about the SQWD's when they first came out, and they've turned out to be a great product for the money... I hear the next revision will be even better, and will address my biggest gripe with it in it's current form... the size of the I/O.

Personally I think it's great the people are interested in these products and are buying them and testing them out for all of our benefit... I just wanted to offer a teeny bit of perspective... that no matter how compelling the product appears, the only real test is how it performs in the long-term.

Can't wait to see your tank in action Nikki... is mojo still holding it for ransom?

 

[NaH2O]

LOL, RA! Mojo is no longer able to blackmail me My tank was getting a final polish today and will be shipped out tomorrow!

 

[kozmo02]

do a small closed loop with a mag pump, try to avoid using powerheads, i find that they really take away from the aesthetic and add extra heat to the water. i would look into a closed loop, along with the flow from your return pump and a few oulets coming off the closed loop, you should have good flow. maybe hide one or two powerheads behind the rockwork for added flow and you should be set.

 

[Maxx]

Thanks Kozmo....
BTW welcome to Reef Sanctuary. Its nice to see some faces from RC over here.
I think that at this stage, I'm going to go w/ the oceans motions, (still havent figured out whether its gonna be 4 way or 8 way) and some modded Maxi Jets along the bottom....
Nick

 

[jimeluiz]

Not sure I'm following the fine points of adjustment here -- but it seems like A LOT of flow to me... but what do I know... I'll leave it to the rest of ya.

I have the same tank and I'm running a split return from a pump rated at 850 gal/h with about a 4' rise, plus one maxijet 1200. Good flow, but not speedy.

Also - my one worry in our tank is of our anemones wandering into the powerhead. We have it arranged so that it is a VERY unlikely result, but if we had multiple PHs, I'm not sure how we could configure it to keep the silly critters from wandering into harm's way.

JMO

 

[NaH2O]

jimeluiz, the having high energy flow is good for SPS tanks. Also, I believe Nick is going to have a bare bottom tank, so good flow in the right direction is also important. The detritus will be kept in the water column and able to more efficiently feed the SPS and get picked up by the skimmer.

 

[mps9506]

Funny how my opinon of flow changed once I got into sps corals.
My tank has around 29x flow(1100gph), and yet I'm not satisfied.
I had the same gph flow in our 75gallon mixed reef (LPS and softies), and it was more than adequate.
Mike

 

[TDEVIL]

man, that really stinks, Nick, i know that you were looking forward to the tank, but this way you still get a tank and have some money to do it up right

i cant wait to see it in action, are you going to add any clams to it? have you thought about any flow problems with them in there

Jay

 

[Maxx]

T-Devil....Yeah, I've been trying to figure the specifics on where I can place my 3 clams....(2 Maxima's and one fast growing Derasa).
I'm trying to develop some low flow areas where they can be sheltered.
I spoke w/ the manufacturer of OceansMotions, Paul. Super Nice guy! Seriously.
I called him to ask him some questions about this thing and how best to employ an 8 way unit in my 58 gallon. He immediately said the 8 way was WAAAAYYYYY too much for what I needed.
That impressed me right off the bat...rarely will a manufacturer try to talk you out of buying the expensive model....
So I spoke w/ him for about an hour and he answered ALL my questions about this thing. I'm impressed by it. I really think I'll end up going w/ a Heavy Duty 4 way, (beefier motor...better longevity). So I started brainstorming some plumbing patterns for a closed loop on this critter.
Back ground info....
The sump return will actually be a spray bar. It will run just over the overflow. The plan is to prevent back siphon in the event of power failure by drilling at least two small holes in the plumbing over the overflow. Drilling them there does two things, (hopefully)...gives an audible indication that things are cool, and being out of the water should slow down the growth of encrusting critters that could block the holes and then allow a nasty siphon event thus draining the tank, reinforcing the landlords fears about leaky aquariums and causing my girlfriend to kill me.
The return pump is a Mag 7 that I have already, (might as well right?) According to the RC head loss calculator.....w/ my configuration, the pump should be running at about 226 GPH.
http://reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.ph...ouplings=2&CheckValves=0&Exits=36&Entrances=1
Not sure I really trust this particular since I'm running it on a spray bar. The holes are going to be small diameter, (1/8 inch or smaller) and I dont think the calculator is really taking that into consideration. According to Custom Aquactic's catalog, the Mag 7 runs @ 400 gph w/ 6 feet of head. I'm planning on about 4 1/2 feet of head so, maybe 375 - 425 gph w/ the way I've got it planned???
I want about 20+ times turnover per hour w/ the closed loop system...thinking a 1000-1200 gph pump.
The closed loop will be six 3/4 inch Revolutions which are his version of a sprinkler head, (sorta, bad analogy, but the only one I can come up w/ right now.) every time water hits 'em they drop down and spray. When water pressure is released they come back up, rotate 22.5 degrees and wait to go back into action from a new angle. The smallest area of coverage for the 3/4 inch Revolutions is 180 degrees, so that should cover alot.
I also want to have 2 lower ports working for me too. So I think I'll go w/a left and right manifold, (ugly, I know...) w/ part of it hitting the corner of the tank, part hitting the front glass at about a 45 degree angle or so, and then the last part blowing up through my rock structure to flush it up. I figure if I reduce the corner shots from 3/4 inch to 1/2 or 1/4, (3/8 maybe???) I will cause enough back pressure to generate decent water force to get the other two ports to be worthwhile...might increase the rockwork flush to 1 inch or maybe 1 1/4 inch in order to reduce velocity...volume is fine, but velocity could be a problem.
Neat thing about these Oceans Motions thingies is that you can configure them to run 2 ports at once...so I wouldnt have 1000-1200 gph running through just one port...again volume being the goal as opposed to velocity.
Nuff w/ the 'splainin'.....here the images.
Whats everyone think???? Good, bad, ugly...lemme have your thoughts, please.
Nick