Cls

[angnak]

I have a 210 gal and am currently only pumpimg about 10x the volume and am looking to do a CLS to increase he flow, but I have no where to put the pump but in the stand. From the bottom of the stand to the top of the tank is almost 6'. Does anyone know of a QUIET pump that can generate about 1000gph through about 11' of linear pipe (6' up to the tank and 5' to go to the sides.) I checked out the gph calculator at RC, but I am not to familiar with some of those pumps (whether they are quiet or not)

 

[Witfull]

inline or submersible?

 

[angnak]

It will be out of water, but is it true that as long as a submersible pump has water running through it, it should be okay? I just want as silent as possible.

 

[BoomerD]

is it true that as long as a submersible pump has water running through it, it should be okay?

NO! NO! NO!
Sorry, but the extra emphasis is because if you try to run most submersible pumps out of water, you will either flood your living room, or burn up the pump, or both!
Mak4 (Gen-X pcx40) is rated for about 1100gph @ 0', the Iwaki MD55 is rated for about 1000 @4', and the Little Giant 4MDQX-SC is rated for about 1100 gph @ 4'. Also to be seriously considered is the Dolphin Aqua-Seas Ampmaster pumps. High volume, low electrical cost, nearly silent, low heat transfer. Minimum size is 2100 GPH through 1.5", and about1300gph through 1".

 

[angnak]

I just read that someone is running a Mag7 pump as an inline and has been doing so for a year and has not had any problems.

 

[Cougra]

With a closed loop system, does the amount of vertical distance in the pipes really mater? Essentially you aren't really lifting any water but just pushing it. Wouldn't any upward pressure needed would be balenced by the downward pressure as the water "falls" to the pump?

I'm not sure if I explained this very well.

 

[Witfull]

unfortunately not Michelle,,,head pressure is head pressure.

 

[BoomerD]

The Mag drive pumps are something of a hybrid. Submersible and/or external useage. I have run a Mag 12 externally myself. Also the Quiet One pumps, Den Pumps and a few other pumps have that option. Then, there are those that are COMPLETELT submersible. I guess that's where I was afraid you were going...
Be careful with the Mag drives...Marine Depot recommends against their use as external pumps, because their volute is the weak point of the system, and that's where all the pressure from the piping will be. My Mag 12 finally started to leak from the pressure beigng put on it from the plumbing fittings, and I traded it out with a Mak4 pump...Much better pump, lots more flow, but a tiny bit more noise.

 

[Cougra]

Isn't head pressure the measurement of distance from the top of the waterline from the area the water is being pumped out of to the top of the waterling to the container it's being pumped into?

I can understand the 90 degree bends being calculated as head pressure, but not the distance.

 

[angnak]

I just found these and am running a couple of Dolphins right now so I am kind of leaning towards these

Very interesting Cougra.

 

[NaH2O]

I'm very happy with my Amp 3000 that's on my closed loop. I have only been running it for about a week, but so far it's very nice. Here is a link to the closed loop plumbing on my tank (120 gal). The stand is 3 feet in height, and the tank is another 2 feet. Some plumbing for Nikki

Hope it helps!

 

[BoomerD]

Michelle, virtually everything in your plumbing acts as a tiny bit of restriction against your pump, that's why even the straight level runs of piping cont as head pressure. It's actually more like frictional loss, but it still works the same way. About 1' of head loss per 10' of horizontal piping is a "rule of thumb", but it's not completley accurate.
Here's a great article on plumbing.
Advanced Aquarist/Plumbing
This goes a lot more into detail than most of us need, but somewhere, inbetween all the gobbldy-gook is some great information even for us of the illiterate masses.

 

[wooddood]

ok i'm running a mag 12 on a closed loop with a scwd on my 120 as we speak. the pump is sitting on my bench at the same height as the bottom of the tank, the scwd is at a 1 ft head after the pump and the 2 output lines running from each side of the scwd are 3 ft long before they connect to the u tubes and flare nozzels i am using where they enter the tank. the mag 12 is warm to the touch but by no means hot at all. troy [pro_builder] contacted danner mgf a while back and was told the mag pumps can be ran externally. i get great flow with this combination and have been running it this way for about a month now with no problems. the max head on the mag 12 is 15 ft so wont work in your application but the mag 24 has a max head of 22 ft and puts out 2400 gph so with the elbows and head loss i would suggest a pump in this gph range. with the lift you need to reach the tank you should be right in the 1000 gph range. hope this helps you a little,good luck. [dave]. i also wanted to add it is virtually silent.

 

[Witfull]

Originally posted by BoomerD
somewhere, inbetween all the gobbldy-gook is some great information even for us of the illiterate masses.

you mean pictures and drawings with pretty colors?...yippie....!!

 

[jks1]

I had the same situation with my 210. I ended up adding a 6" shelf off of the tank support and placed my 2 MAG 24s on that. Couple of things, I wish I would have gone with 1 1/2" inputs to the pumps and the MAGs are pretty noisy. Just some things to consider. I'm thinking of changing everything out for an AMP pump and an Oceans Motion device... Heres a pic

 

[wooddood]

i dont get it my mag pumps are extremely quiet.

 

[jks1]

Are they submerged Dave?

 

[Cougra]

Originally posted by Witfull
you mean pictures and drawings with pretty colors?...yippie....!!

I've read the article and it still didn't answer my question, in fact the little pictures and drawings with pretty colours kinda confirmed what I'm trying to say. The head presure in a closed loop system is different then if you were pumping water from a sump to the tank.

 

[Reef Geek]

Correct Cougra, it is different for an overflow/return versus a CLS, much like Boomer said. The head loss built up in a CLS is due to the water's friction with the walls of the pipe. It is not such a big deal in a sump return because gravity is the greatest contributor to head loss. But for a CLS, frictional head loss is the biggest contributing factor.

 

[wooddood]

john the mag 12 on the closed loop is not submerged but the mag 7 is in the sump and also on a scwd but it's quite also.