Clownfish sick? Unknown disease

PootyTang

Member
This is a picture of my male clownfish. He's looked like this for about a day and a half now but I've just noticed in the past hour or two that he's swimming kind of sluggishly and staying near the bottom. The female is beside him the whole time and doesn't seem to have the same thing. Please help!
IMG_0002-1.jpg
 

PootyTang

Member
I just added a cube of brine to see if he was eating and he ate like a pig, but he went right back to a little cave in the rock and just hung out there again. I'm hoping this is some kind of mating behaviour and that the film is unrelated, but I can't tell. Any ideas?
 

PootyTang

Member
forgot to put parameters:
Nitrite: trace (we had a large foxface pass away, I think he contributed to this)
Nitrate: 15-20
Phospate: 0
pH: 8.1
salinity: 1.025
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
I'm not quite sure if I'm looking at a case of Oodiniumn (Velvet) or Cryptocaryon (SW ich).

Often Oodiniumn (Velvet) looks like the fish is covered in gold dust, and the disease is sometimes called gold dust disease.

If you do actually have Oodiniumn (Velvet), you must treat it right away. It is extremely serious. Remove all fish to a quarantine tank, and treat with copper. Hyposalinity does not work for Oodiniumn (Velvet).

If you think it's Cryptocaryon (SW ich), treatment is similar. Remove all fish to a quarantine tank, and treat with copper or hyposalinity.

Since copper can be used to treat either disease, I'd go with that treatment. Be sure to use a quarantine tank, and treat all fish. Never ever medicate a reef system to treat a fish disease.
 

PootyTang

Member
Would it be helpful to mention that he's recently been "hosting" in a rather large frogspawn? It's hard to tell, but just based on the appearance of the slime, I'm wondering if its frogspawn mucous
 

PootyTang

Member
I mention this because neither my hepatus tang nor my purple tang have ich, which they would surely have if that was the case and it doesn't really look like velvet to me.
 

PootyTang

Member
I found the link pretty interesting about the bit with natural defenses. I say this because I run a natural tank (ie. no quarantine tank, I am very much aware of the fact that ich is present in the tank all the time, and yet I have never had a fish die from it and I have only ever seen the hepatus tang with the spots when I stress her out (ie moving rocks etc). I know there is some criticism of this, but I think the fact that my tank runs healthy is at least somewhat of a testament to the concept. I figure this is important to mention as it also means that whatever the clownfish now has has been around since he was put in there (about 3 months ago) and since the female was there (almost a year) and yet he's just showing symptoms now. Any thoughts?
 

Clownfish518

Razorback
PREMIUM
As far as I know, a natural reef doesn't have anything to do with a QT system. Read the Natural Reef Aquarium by John Tullock.

I think I took my dog to my sisters farm last year where he got covered in ticks. Couple weeks ago he was ill and I took him to the vet. She said he has Lyme's disease, and gave me medicine for the dog; now he is all better. Why wouldn't you medicate your fish?
 

PootyTang

Member
Well to be honest, I don't really have much of a choice, we have one LFS here in town and it operates this way. I could quarantine and medicate my fish, but every time I added rock or inverts I would have to re-quarantine and treat the tank. I am, however, a firm believer in treatment when necessary and have given a few fish freshwater baths if I felt it was my only chance. The problem with this is that the baths, and even some medication doesn't cure immediately and so the end result always seems to be that the stress hinders the fish's immune system more than treatment helps it. I can certainly see where you're coming from, but if this were the real problem, wouldn't my hard-to-keep fish be the ones getting sick (ie the hepatus tang and the bellus)? These fish have been the healthiest in my tank so far.
 

Clownfish518

Razorback
PREMIUM
Baths don't cure ich, I don't medicate without disease present, and I QT inverts and rock before putting them in the tank. QT isn't just for fish
 

PootyTang

Member
As I said before, I can certainly see your point. I have considered setting up a quarantine/hospital tank before, but another problem I encounter is size. To accommodate fish like the purple tang or a full-grown blue-chin trigger would require a huge quarantine tank. I will certainly treat the fish, I have no opposition to this, but quarantine doesn't really seem to be necessary as none of these disease seemed to be transmitted.
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
I found the link pretty interesting about the bit with natural defenses. I say this because I run a natural tank (ie. no quarantine tank, I am very much aware of the fact that ich is present in the tank all the time, and yet I have never had a fish die from it and I have only ever seen the hepatus tang with the spots when I stress her out (ie moving rocks etc). I know there is some criticism of this, but I think the fact that my tank runs healthy is at least somewhat of a testament to the concept. I figure this is important to mention as it also means that whatever the clownfish now has has been around since he was put in there (about 3 months ago) and since the female was there (almost a year) and yet he's just showing symptoms now. Any thoughts?

I fail to see how the results you are obtaining support your post.

You mentioned you lost a foxface, a fish similar to a tang, and now you have a sick clown. You also state that your hepatus tang gets spots when you do something as simple as move rocks.

Obviously you system is infested with at least one disease.

As long as you have a fish host, the disease will be there, just waiting to infect some fish. Do not think that just because you don't see spots, that the fish don't have the disease. Often the primary area parasites attach is in the gills.

To solve this problem, you need to remove all the fish to a quarantine tank, and treat for the disease, for at least 4 weeks. Longer would be better. With the main tank being empty of a fish host, the parasites will starve. This does take awhile.

Yes treatment in a QT tank is a pain, yes you'll need something rather large, but it's the only way to solve the problem, rather than masking it.
 

PootyTang

Member
On the topic of the foxface, it died because it was very skinny when it was put in the tank. Its stomach became pinched and despite it beginning to eat in the last few days, we knew we were going to lose it, it had nothing to do with disease. On the topic of other diseases, if ich is really as deadly as many people claim and that the only way to keep fish from dying is by quarantine and medication, then why can my fish get a few spots and lose them in a couple days, never worse for wear? This isn't a matter of getting lucky, I have had a Hepatus tang in my tank who are notorious for getting ich and yet I think I have only seen spots on her once or twice in the year we've had her.
 

leebca

Well-Known Member
The thread has wandered away from its original post for help. Yes. I don't agree with the poster's methods. I can find no good reason not to operate in the fish's best interest. Hobbyista manage quarantine tanks and procedures and keep parasites out of their display system even where there are no LFSs within driving distance. However, that isn't the purpose of the original post.

The fish is not showing signs of hosting in a hostile or inappropriate host. The clarity of the picture doesn't let me see if the fish has spots and if so, whether the spots are fuzzy (like the picture implies) or are sharply defined.

In general, the spots are too large for Marine Velvet and perhaps more like Marine Ich. Since the parasite is in the tank, this would most likely be the cause of what is being seen, with possible secondary bacterial infections causing a hazy appearance to the spots.

The drop in water quality is just the fish stressor the parasite is waiting for to bloom and spread to vulnerable fishes.

If those reading this think they'd like to discuss further the pros and cons of marine fish husbandry, then I suggest you open a thread on that subject, so I don't have to close this one. Let's stay on topic here, please. :)
 
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lcstorc

Well-Known Member
Since you have made it clear you will not treat the fish, the only recommendation I can make is to soak their food in garlic and in general to feed them the most healthy food you can while reducing stress as much as you can.
This will give them the best chance possible of fighting the disease/parasite on their own. They will still have it, but boosting their immune system can help. As you already know symptoms may come back at any time, particularly when the fish is stressed or when you add a new fish to the system.
This route is known to seriously reduce the life span of the fish since they are constantly fighting the parasite but does sometimes work in the short term.
All of this is based on ich being the problem. I know litle to nothing about velvet so it could be completely different.
 
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