Clam color change from blue to purple

[Dentoid]

That's compelling evidence! Good debate! :jester:

 

[prow]

Ill tell James you like his book the next time i talk to him on the phone

yes he did a good job and he also states the samethings i have been saying in his book pages 32-33.

Now you read up on these

I included references to both clams as well as corals because you keep referencing studies that pertain to corals. Note that GFP-like protein pigments are produced by the coral not its symbiote

everything in all your links says what i have been saying. yes clam produce thier of pigments but that is for filtering UV spectrums in the 400ish range. lets use your qoutes, again...

The iridosomal platelets form a space lattice giving maximum light interference at a wavelength of around 400 nm or just above.

in the 400 range, ok i agree and never said its doesnt.

it was once very popular within the hobby to associate all coral coloration with pigments found within zooxanthellae. While it is true that light absorbed by the photopigments of symbionts does play an important part in the overall coloration perceived by the human eye

what this, zoo'x play an important part in the overall coloration perceived by us???? again your link states what i have been saying

Some fluorescent or reflective pigments are associated with photosynthetic symbionts. Chlorophyll (most often found in zooxanthellae, for our purposes anyway) can, under certain conditions, lend a deep red fluorescent coloration. Another photopigment, phycoerythrin, can, in some cases, make the animal host appear fluoresce orange.

again one of your qoutes states what i have been saying. why do you qoute things that say zoo'x produce colors but you still say they dont????

Abstract Reef-building corals are renowned for their brilliant colours yet the biochemical basis for the pigmentation of corals is unknown. Here, we show that these colours are due to a family of GFP-like proteins that fluoresce under ultraviolet (UV) or visible light. Pigments from ten coral species were almost identical to pocilloporin (Dove et al. 1995) being dimers or trimers with approximately 28-kDa subunits. Degenerative primers made to common N-terminal sequences yielded a complete sequence from reef-building coral cDNA, which had 19.6% amino acid identity with green fluorescent protein (GFP). Molecular modelling revealed a `β-can' structure, like GFP, with 11 β-strands and a completely solvent-inaccessible fluorophore composed of the modified residues Gln-61, Tyr-62 and Gly-63. The molecular properties of pocilloporins indicate a range of functions from the conversion of high-intensity UV radiation into photosynthetically active radiation (PAR) that can be regulated by the dinoflagellate peridinin-chlorophyll-protein (PCP) complex, to the shielding of the Soret and Qx bands of chlorophyll a and c from scattered high-intensity light. These properties of pocilloporin support its potential role in protecting the photosynthetic machinery of the symbiotic dinoflagellates of corals under high light conditions and in enhancing the availability of photosynthetic light under shade conditions.

ok here again stating what i have been saying, again your qoute. states clams filter UV, here they even say they convert it to PAR spectrums but what is it that regulates that PAR spectrum...dinoflagellate which are zoo'x.. so once again you qouting something that states what i have been saying...

Corals can acclimate to strong-light environments by
controlling the type and/or number of harbored algal
cells and their pigment content, and by adjusting the
complement of UV-screening, mycosporin-like amino
acids (MAAs) and antioxidant molecules (Falkowski &
Dubinsky 1981, Hoegh-Guldberg & Smith 1989, Iglesias-
Prieto & Trench 1994, Shick et al. 1995, Rowan et
al. 1997, Richier et al. 2005). A photoprotective function
has also been suggested for the host pigments that
are mainly responsible for the intense bluish, green,
or reddish hues of many anthozoans living in symbiosis
with zooxanthellae (Kawaguti 1944, Kawaguti 1969,
Wiedenmann et al. 1999, Salih et al. 2000).

and again, this shows corals pigments used to filter UV light but here is states its the algal cells and their pigments that control it....but this for softies and anemones...

you do know what Anthonzoan are right??? anemones dont count, i did not link coral refs, those were yours i feed back to you. i did here too your qoutes just read back to you. you can not just pick the parts you like and forget the rest....99% of what you provided was for only corals or anemones everything you linked and qouted about clams states the samethings i have been saying. dont believe me read your own links and dont skip sections then you may see what i am talking about..

It is now evadent, that Anthonzoan colours, including those of corals and anemones, are due to a large family of GFP-like floursent and non-floursent pigment protiens

so why this, anemones and softy corals color has nothing to do with it.......



O and by the way GFP-like protein pigments are built using things like β-carotene, beta-glucan, diatoxanthin and many others that increase these pigments, where do these come from, zoo'x?

 

[chris&barb]

Prow your not even understanding what you are reading.

Reef-building corals are renowned for their brilliant colours yet the biochemical basis for the pigmentation of corals is unknown. Here, we show that these colours are due to a family of GFP-like proteins that fluoresce under ultraviolet (UV) or visible light.

It is now evadent, that Anthonzoan colours, including those of corals and anemones, are due to a large family of GFP-like floursent and non-floursent pigment protiens

the above quotes states that GFP proteins are where the colors we see come from. It says nothing about zoox . UV radiation is filtered by mycosporin-like amino acids (MAAs). MMAs are clear, have no color. UV radiation makes the GFP proteins glow (fluoresce) and we see these colors. Where zoox comes into play in coral coloration is light intensity. in low light intensity the coral produces GFPs below the zoox to reflect light to the zoox. Since the protein is below the zoox we see the zoox (which is brown) hence brown corals. In high light intensity the coral produces the proteins above the zoox. In these cases we see the protein hence, bright colors.

Now your trying to make it look like im stating the same thing you did which is incorrect. You never said anything about GFP proteins, iridophores, MMAs, you stated it was all algae which is incorrect.

Back to clams and iridophores. You presented nothing on clams only algae. I presented a Doctoral thesis and two papers dealing just with clams and they all state clearly that the colors and patterns seen in clams mantles are produced by the iridophores not algae. And they dont limit the reflectance of the iridophores to a particular spectral range as you just suggested.

Clams can tilt these iridophores to regulate the amount of light the zoox receives. Just like how corals will place GFPs below or above their zoox depending on light intensity. When a clam is in low light it tilts it iridophores to let the zoox receive more light and then we can see the zoox and zoox are brown.

If you want to pull quotes out of James book how about this one. (pg33 second paragraph)

The primary photosynthetic pigments in zooxanthellae are green chlorophyll and red peridinin, both of which absorb visible light in order to perform photosynthsis, turning solar energy into the chemical energy trapped in glucose and such. These pigments absorb and use some parts of the spectrum of visable light better then others though, and dont absorb much if any green or red light. Thats why zooxanthellae tend to be rather brown or reddish-brown in color. Their color, as we see it, is a mixture of the green and red light that is reflected by their photosynthetic pigments

Get your reef coloring book out and mix green and red and tell me what color you get. (ill give you a hint, brown)


Now im done here, im not sure if you just dont get it or if you are unwilling to accept it.

 

[prow]

lets make this real clear for you. all the following are taken from your posts and links.

It is now evadent, that Anthonzoan colours, including those of corals and anemones, are due to a large family of GFP-like floursent and non-floursent pigment protiens

you seem to like Anthozoan and their GFP--what does anemone, jelly fish or softies have to with it?? ok forget this lests get down what your qouting about zoo'x shall we...

Carlos et al. (2000), showed that multiple strains of zooxanthellae havebeen found inside giant clams. If one of these strains contain less peridinin, an orange
based pigment, then it would appear green, due to the remaining chlorophyll a and c2
pigments.

the above here you posted and look what it states. your link your quote says the opposite of what you are saying. or am i not understanding this right?
*the brown produced you keep thinking about was for that paper and that clam not all.

Some fluorescent or reflective pigments are associated with photosynthetic symbionts. Chlorophyll (most often found in zooxanthellae, for our purposes anyway) can, under certain conditions, lend a deep red fluorescent coloration. Another photopigment, phycoerythrin, can, in some cases, make the animal host appear fluoresce orange.

the above is also your qoute and state more zoo'x pigments/colors i must not be understanding this. zoo'x effect the colors we see?? sence its your qoute what is your understanding of it?

it was once very popular within the hobby to associate all coral coloration with pigments found within zooxanthellae. While it is true that light absorbed by the photopigments of symbionts does play an important part in the overall coloration perceived by the human eye

this once again is also your quote. and once again states the opposite of what your saying. am i understanding this right? zoo'x pigments play an important part in the overall coloration?

i never said zoo'x produce all the colorations. i do understand how it works but you seem to think zoo'x dont produce colors at all, your just wrong and thats that..

IMO, for the OG post, a increase in the red pigment phycoerythrin (red) (comes from zoo's) on a blue pigmented clam would cause a the blue clam to turn purplish like his did. so i am sticking with zoo'x as the cause for his clams procieved color change. but you dont believe zoo'x can do this so its pointless to discuss it with you.

as you can read, using just your qoutes above, green, orange, red and brown color come from zoo'x, but you still say, no, it is not so. ok you believe what you want i know zoo'x produce pigments and produce colors in clams and as i stated many times clams produce thier own colors too. you dont think so even though your own qoutes say different. when you post things that state the opposite of what your saying there is no discussion possible. so best of luck to you and happy reefing

REEF ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[newreefguy]

Wow, now that we all know how to read many strings of large words.... lets all play nice. :-D

 

[chris&barb]

I let this go because prow dosent know what hes talking about. He is using research from the early 90's and im using research from 2003 and 2005.

 

[Tommo]

Hi all , First time post .

I know a little about reef keeping "not a large amount" but enough to keep my fish/corals/clams alive "thats the main thing."

But ONE thing i do know , And that is anything , and .........i mean it.......... ANYTHING, about clams, Chris&Barb Knows what he is talking about , no disrepect to anyone , but clams ......."well C&B knows it inside and out"

Sorry if i have caused any trouble , but IMO 100% , i would take what C&B has posted and use the info ............ like i have in the past & in the future......... and trust me, you will be better for it .


Tommo

"i hope i am not banned for this post"

 

[Frankie]

Wow, now that we all know how to read many strings of large words.... lets all play nice. :-D

You talk about playing nice but dragged out this 4 month old thread. On top of it you have nothing to offer to this thread. :willis:
Looks like another member i need to keep an eye on~ :eye: :eye:

 

[newreefguy]

What? no... I didn't even mean to post here

 

[newreefguy]

I was in a chat room reading about zoas and they were cursing eachother, had this post in background.... sorry, wasn't trying to stir up trouble.

 

[Frankie]

NP dude. Thanks for clearing that up

 

[Frankie]

"i hope i am not banned for this post"

Why would you think that Tommo? We love Chris's posts here and he is very knowledgeable.
Welcome to RS

 

[sandyc]

I am happy to report that my clam is doing well, despite the color change. It has even increased in size. I wish it were still blue however I am happy as a clam that it is doing well and is growing!

 

[novanosis]

Why would you think that Tommo? We love Chris's posts here and he is very knowledgeable.
Welcome to RS

Frankie I am not afraid of you! I will speak my mind!

 

[newreefguy]

Sorry for confusion....

 

[Frankie]

Frankie I am not afraid of you! I will speak my mind!

Dude, don't make me go into Witfull's locker and borrow some mod tool's

 

[novanosis]

Dude, don't make me go into Witfull's locker and borrow some mod tool's

LOL, man is that one of the tools you found? Pretty ancient dont you think?

Just kidding sheesh I will go away now. :scram:

 

[Clownfish518]

Clams do not get their color from the zooxanthellae. The color comes from pigments the clam produces. Zoox are a golden brown color so if clams got their color from them they would all be brown. If you notice in some clams that are kept under less then ideal lighting or in a high nutrient environment then tend to turn brown or darken. This is cause because (in a low light environment) the clams is allowing the zoox population to increase so there are more zoox to feed the clam. The more zoox the browner the clam. The same is true in a high nutrient environment.

Besides zooxanthellae some inverts also have zoochlorellae which are algaes in the blue/green spectrum. I have no idea if clams have them, I know anemones do and is where they get their blue and green coloration.