Calcium buffers, Kalkwasser, and 2 Part Additives!?!

R

roadrunner1659

Member
Hey Everyone and Happy Fathers Day to all of the Dads!

I had a question about a few things dealing with calium and alkalinity...

Currently i use Kent Turbo Calcium Buffer to get my Ca levels above 400 (currently my ca is sitting at 400)...I was wondering when i do my water changes, will i lose some of my ca level along with it?

I know that i need to test my new water to find out what the levels are b4 adding it to my tank but i was just wonder if this can lower the ca levels?

How often will i need to use the kent buffer, or does using a 2 part addative or kalkwasser cancel out the need for using the kent buffer when my ca level is were i want it?

Finally, which is the better of two ways...are 2 part addatives (such as Bionic) better to use, or is dripping kalkwasser a better way to go?

If any addition information is need, i will happily supply it!

Thanks!
 
Kensn

Kensn

Well-Known Member
Well... I would make sure the water used for your water changed matched the tank water as close as possible befor doing the water change, including the calcium. As far as how much of anything is needed to keep calcium up to acceptable levels depends on the demand. I am sorry but i am not familiar with your tank.... What ya got over there?? Kalk has many positive attributes besides just keeping the calcium up...
 
blue_eyes53813

blue_eyes53813

Well-Known Member
Hey roadrunner,,,, You will have to monitor your calcium and alk( keep a record) and see how much your tank is using the calcium and how much the alk fluctuates in between water changes.

What kind of salt are you using? All salts are different and have different amounts of calcium in them... Everybodies tank is different because the corals will use some of the calcium... If you have alot of corals your calcium will flucuate more than some who dont. Even coraline algae will eat up the calcium.

I drip kalk every night and havent had to use my C balance for quite some time. I do want to add more acros and I know they will suck the calcium up and may have to dose C balance also once or twice a week.

The kalk I believe is what is keeping everything stable for me. Water changes are always needed and shouldnt reduce calcium levels. I use instant ocean and have never had a problem...

Maybe if you monitor your tanks calcium, alkalinity, and Ph for a week or 2 and give the readings on here we could tell ya what and when you need to add extra calcium or additives etc.
 
R

roadrunner1659

Member
I do keep a record of my ca and alk...i try to test my tank once a week, and through the month of May, these were my results -

May 6th - 8 dkh, 340 ppm
May 14th - 8 dkh, 360 ppm
May 18th - 9 dkh, 360 ppm
May 21st - 7 dkh, 400 ppm
May 26th - 7 dkh, 380 ppm

I have been fighting with my test kits as of lately, i cant figure out if im doing something wrong or what, but for the last few weeks i have been getting the same readout 7dkh and 360 ppm. (Test kits are good till 2010) So i began to take my water to the local LFS' and i got a readout of 10 dkh and 440 ppm.

I use to use reef cystals and now i use sera salt. I do a weekly water change and the rest of my general levels hold steady at 0.

A buddy at the lfs set me up with the kent turbo calcium and i know that is what put my ca up were it needs to be. I own the 2 part addatives and kalkwasser and i want to use the one that give me the greatest benefits!

I dont have alot that i think takes away my calcium other then coraline algea and my frogspawn coral...but your right blue eyes, now that i have my ca and alk in an area that is good, i dont want it to fluctuate back and forth i would like it to hold steady as possible...
 
R

roadrunner1659

Member
i am going to drip kalk guys...it seems that it has greater all around benefits as compared to dosing a 2 part system...but atleast having the 2 part system will be there if ever needed!

Thanks for the help guys!
 
KeyserSoze

KeyserSoze

Member
I wanted to say thank you to all that contributed to this thread. I've read many about Calcium and dripping Kalk and never saw it explained quite like this. I use Kent Calcium and when I asked for advice at my LFS store I was told to continue with what was working and not to mess with it. After reading how people had crashed their tanks with Kalk it seemed like good advice. After reading this dripping Kalk does make more sense and I understand the benefits better. Thank you all!
 
Boomer

Boomer

Reef Sanctuary's Mr. Wizard
Runner


So i began to take my water to the local LFS' and i got a readout of 10 dkh and 440 ppm.

You seem to be Ok now but.........
Before you run off the deep end or pull all your hair out who's kit ( Ca++ and Alk) are yous using ? Please do not say Red Sea !!!!!!! Which is what I expect you to say :D
 
R

roadrunner1659

Member
No...my calcium and alk test kits are both sera test kit brand...i brought my water over to billys today and my ca and alk are around 385 ppm and 8 dkh (salifert test kits)...i added some kent turbo calcium tonight and i will also begin adding water mixed with kalk at night to create a more stable ca and alk levels!

i also think that over the next few days i will try to check my ca and alk levels around the same time of day to see what my levels do over a few days!

i will try to check both my ca and alk tonight b4 i go to bed just to see where im at after adding the ca buffer!
 
R

roadrunner1659

Member
ok guys im completly stumped...as i just stated billy tested my water and got a reading of 8 dkh and 385 ppm ca...i just tested my water with my test kits and (this is a few hrs after adding kent turbo calcium) and i get a reading of 8 dkh and 320 ppm ca??????????????????????????????????? something def. has to be wrond right guys...i mean i dont think that ca in my little tank could drop 65 points in a matter of 12 hrs, let alone after also adding kent turbo calcium...im so confused!?!

also, i was wondering, when adding the ca buffer, will this lower my alk or will the kalk at night stable the alk with the ca?

thanks!
 
Boomer

Boomer

Reef Sanctuary's Mr. Wizard
We need to stat over RR. Take your kit to the store and test the same sample with both kits.

1. What are you calling Ca buffer? Brand/who's/type. Is this what you are calling Kent Turbo, to make sure or do you mean both parts of the two-part or just the Ca part of the two-part ?.

2. Ca buffer, Kent Turbo, kalk. If you have been adding all of these your Ca and alk levels are going to be a mess and this may be your real problem. When you start adding all of these together the Alk and Ca often get all messed up, like you have. The system water chemistry kinda' sets a new set of rules, where you never seem to be able to keep things in line, like you have. Solution, a 25-50 water change to get the water chemistry back in shape.

3. It does not sound to me you are doing # 2, so I'm assuming it is a test kit error or you have not read the instructions properly. A LFS test with both kits will show this, if both are way off or not using the kit right or the kit is bad.


You need to check those kits first before you go any further.

Kalk it the best it meets your demands, as it is a Ca sup and a Alk booster. Once we know what is going on with those kits and if the Ca is low and the Alk is fine, then use only the Kent Turbo to boost the Ca up to the levels you want. Once the Ca is up there, then use just the Kalk if you choose that one. Remember, that Turbo Calcium is a one shot deal. You add it to boost up your calcium, no adding any buffers of any kind and then stop using it and go to the kalk or two-part, which ever you choose. If either the kalk or the two-part , which ever one you decide to use, is not quite making you demands then you can use the other to boost it up. Many people do this, use both when demands are short.
 
R

roadrunner1659

Member
ok im a little confused now to boomer but i will let you know what i do...and what i have been led to believe is the right way of doing this!?!

From what i understand, i use the kent turbo calcium to raise my ca to the desired level (i was told that i should only have to do this maybe once a week - actually my buddy told me that the container i bought should easily be a year supply since my tank is only 50 gals of total water volume)

...anyway...

then after using the kent turbo ca (and my ca is where i want it to be), i can then use kalkwasser at night on a dip line with my topoff ro/di water...i am under the impression that kalk is used to keep my ca and alk steady and up in the desired levels...along with a few other added benefits.

...this is what i do...am i right or wrong...thanks for the help boomer!
 
Boomer

Boomer

Reef Sanctuary's Mr. Wizard
Your buudy is incorrect ;) You shold not be using Turbo to sup your low Ca needs on a daily or weekly bases, that is no-no. It is NOT a sup. Its only purpose is to boost up the Ca when it is low, like from a salt mix. There are two reasons not to do it the buddy way. 1. Using it this way will increase your chloride level, raise your salinity 2. Calcium chloride is NOT a balanced sup. Only two-parts and kalk are balanced sup and Ca reactors. When ca and Alk are not balanced you run into problems trying to keep them in line.

This will help you understand it better and I will not have to type so much :D

How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm

Solving Calcium and Alkalinity Problems
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

When Do Calcium and Alkalinity Demand Not Exactly Balance?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.htm

A Simplified Guide to the Relationship Between Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium and pH
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/index.php


So you have allot of homework
 
R

roadrunner1659

Member
hey boomer thanks for the articles...i just finished reading the solving alk and ca problums, and i think that i am getting somewhat of a better undertstanding...from the levels that i got from billy early today (385 ppm ca and 8 dkh) i found that i would be in the number 2 section - which means that i dont need to be adding the turbo calcium...all i need to do is use either a 2 part addative or kalkwasser to raise the 2 in a balanced form...

am i correct so far?
 
R

roadrunner1659

Member
but what i am not understanding, is how early today i got a reading of 7 dkh and 385 ppm ca from billy and when i test i get 7 dkh and 340 ppm ca? i mean it cant be possible that my ca drops that much...i just there is something wrong with my test kits?

i dont know but i have been messing around with this long enough tonight...im going to bed and i will deal with this tomorrow...

thanks boomer!
 
Witfull

Witfull

Well-Known Member
one thing that happens when testing is the drops are not uniform, this can throw the numbers off.
 
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