Bush plan to reduce global warming could devastate sea life

[cheeks69]

Humanity is on a path of destruction. Our concern is not about the environment or about the future of the planet, our concern is about the here and now and instant gratification and about how much money we can make no matter what the repurcusions may be very sad that people don't think about the problems until it's too late. How much more can this planet take

 

[Witfull]

its a shame that politicians and not environmentalist calling the shots. but it is partly our fault too. we are the ones buying a tiny item wrapped in a pound of plastic. we throw away so many items that could be recycled. the lack of recycling centers. centers that will not accept many items for reasons of cost management. manufacturers who still do not use plastics that can be recycled. we need to voice our opinions and help in this too.
im not standing on a soapbox preaching, im guilty too.

 

[ScottT1980]

Originally posted by cheeks69
Humanity is on a path of destruction. Our concern is not about the environment or about the future of the planet, our concern is about the here and now and instant gratification and about how much money we can make no matter what the repurcusions may be very sad that people don't think about the problems until it's too late. How much more can this planet take

Its so true, dumb humans (including myself), trying to put a band-aid on the problem as opposed to actually making the Tough decisions. As far as the actual plan, I think it could create a timebomb under the ocean floor as well as disrupt bethic ecosystems.

Ah well, more research might prove me otherwise...

Take er easy
Scott T.

 

[DICK]

Environmentalists calling the shots? We wouldn't have a computer to communicate, a car to travel with, clothes to wear, etc. The idea of environmentalism looks great on paper but unfortunately is not what it seems, in my opinion. It is very possible leaders of these groups have their own personal agendas and use scare tactics to sway public opinion.

 

[Craig Manoukian]

Dick,

You make a great point.

I was accosted by an environmenalist in S.F. who berated me because my wife was wearing a fur coat. I informed him it was a "propogated" fur from a fox farm. He told me that was cruel and inhumane and I responded that it was no different than cattle in a stock yard.

He then criticized me for being a meat eater and said raising cattle for consumption was wrong. I told him he was a hippocrite for waering a leather belt and shoes.

That was the end of the discussion as you can well imagine. Good stewardship is the real key here Not pure consumption and not pure environmentalism, but somewhere in the middle!

Call your congressmen and senators. Great link deanerk!

:smirk:

 

[DICK]

Thanx Craig. My point is we can't react on emotion to media reports no matter what side of an issue you're on. This brings errors in judgement and/or action.

 

[johnlewis]

OK sorry to weigh in WITFUL but I would like to keep the environmentalist out of this too, they are like weather people they just are guessing at what is going to happen. They do not have enough data, they argue about global warming some say it is the end of the world and some say it's just the earth going through a phase. We have only been keeping temperature data for just over 100 yrs but the planet is billions of years old. So just take what they say with a grain of salt hopefully sea salt.

Just my $.02:smirk:

 

[johnlewis]

I just hope everyone looks at many ideas and makes the correct choice.

 

[cward43062]

I think the media tells you bits and pieces of a story that they want you to here... Don't believe everything you read. There is probably more to the story then what was reported.

Who could believe the media after some of the lies they have reported. I mean come on; they reported that Elvis is dead.

 

[Craig Manoukian]

Hey, didn't you see Elvis at a 7-11 last night!

:smirk:

 

[cheeks69]

How much proof do we need ??? Coral reefs are disappearing
the rainforest is just about wiped out there's huge holes in the ozone layer the poles are melting away and we could go on allnight. I'm not an environmentalist and I try to be balanced and yes I do eat red meat but the point is that if you don't believe there's a problem than you have to be blind or want to be blind and ignore an overwhelming amount of evidence that indicates that we are in serious trouble if humans don't change the way they think and act

 

[deanerk]

OK, we all know that the media can be slanted and and just as divided on important issues as our rediculous two party, black and white, left and right political system. No news there. If you feel strongly about an issue, go to the link I posted above and write and call your representatives, democrat and republican, and tell them how you feel. Even if you don't know all of the facts, just letting them know that their constituents are concerned about a matter can be enough to encourage them to educate themselves about an issue they likely know nothing about. Our representatives can't possibly have background information on everything that is put to a vote and when they don't they just end up voting along party lines and that is a tragedy in itself. How can our representatives represent us if we don't inform them of issues that concern us? Isn't that what a democracy is supposed to be all about? How can the people be heard if they don't speak?

Whoa! Ran away a bit with that thought... Anyway, to get back on topic, even if the planet is just going through a "phase" in warming, it is impossible to ignore the part that humans have played in the global ecology of our planet. We produce a lot of CO2. Our only options are to reduce the amount we produce or find someplace to put it. We've produced an imbalance in nature and need to fix it. I'll make an analogy to reefing. A lot of people new to the hobby end up with terrible algae problems and come here for advice. They've tried everything - added chemicals, bought a lawnmower blenny, bought a new skimmer, reduced feeding, do 50% water changes every week. What is the first thing the more experienced reefers tell them to do? Find the source of increased nitrates and address that! We all know the sources of increased CO2, but unlike european nations that have called for significant reductions in CO2 output in the near future, the US has decided that it would be easier to spend billions covering up the mess. If this strategy happens to cause problems down the road, well, we'll worry about that when it happens even though it could mean devastation of important ecosystems.

Ugh! I'm going to bed. Someone tell me I'm crazy for ranting half awake...

 

[Craig Manoukian]

Here are a couple of links to a general discussion of the oceans ability to store CO2. the information suggests that the amount of CO2 absorption in the ocean is temperature sensitive. I seems like the natural range of CO2 is very dependant on temperature and may variy from ocean to ocean as you move away from the equator, eh?

Very interesting topic as it is a global issue related to global warming!

http://coexploration.org/bbsr/classroombats/html/co2_in_the_sea.html

http://climatechange.unep.net/jcm/doc/jcm/pan/carbonplot.htm

HTH :smirk:

 

[johnlewis]

Great stuff Craig,

Problem One: Yep there is about 6.5 billion things producing CO2 every minute, and the number of them things keeps rising.

Problem Two: We need electricity for pumps, heaters computers ect.. We burn coals which pollutes this great planet of ours and when we suggest more efficient and clean solution such as nuclear power everyone frets about that, and we don't have enough rivers, windmills, solar panels and other clean sources of energy to produce the electricity we demand from problem one, so we continue with coal.

Problem Three: We build build build and chop down every tree we can find in the name of progress. Trees use CO2 and provide wood, shade, syrup ect. Solve problem three plant some trees.

Well I've spouted enough I hope someone can figure out a solution that will not cause other problems. who ever does will be a billionaire and I'll buy them a beer.

 

[Craig Manoukian]

Plant trees and shrubs! Call your Senators and Congressmen, oh have I said that before! Great points John! We have met the enemy and they is us. How many watts of light per day do we contribute here at this reefing community? Yikes!

:smirk:

 

[deanerk]

The issue is not really that someone needs to find a solution and expect to become a billionaire. There is no money in conservation for you and I. The problem is that conservation will not happen until stricter regulations are passed and enforced on the industries that are responsible for gross overuse of fossil fuels and CO2 pollution. Bush made a campaign promise to regulate power station emissions and then abandonned it. Story here. Clinton also stalled on the Kyoto Protocol as he was leaving office, likely looking out for his political future. Bush has way too many ties to energy and oil industries to ever ratify the Kyoto Protocol so it's not likely to happen during his term. That's not meant to be a politically charged statement, just common knowledge.

So, there is no solution free of other problems. Hydroelectric, wind, and solar energy solutions make sense, but they're expensive and not embraced by coal and oil industries. As long as we stick to coal and oil we can just count on our children's children to pick up the tab for us in the form of devastated ecosystems.

Keep writing and calling and voting until you're heard!

 

[cheeks69]

As long as we stick to coal and oil we can just count on our children's children to pick up the tab for us in the form of devastated ecosystems. [/B]

well said deanerk. I'm concerned about what the future holds for my 3 year old little girl. There are alternatives but it's just not profitable enough and the oil and coal industries have a lot of influence. What people don't understand is that everything is interconnected and eventually it's gonna catch up to us but by then it will be too late to do anything about it.

 

[LisaB]

conservation will not happen until stricter regulations are passed and enforced on the industries that are responsible for gross overuse of fossil fuels and CO2 pollution

I have seen the enemy and they are us.

These "industries" are not as responsible as we are ourselves. Car exhaust causes more pollution than anything. Ever been to Denver? Denver has some of the worst air in the country. Big brown cloud over the city. How many refineries or chemical plants are in Denver? None. Cars idling in traffic on freeways for hours a day created their problem. People buy giant-gas guzzling cars because they can (come on, who REALLY needs a Hummer?) creating the demand for oil. In many ways it's become a drug to which Americans have become addicted--a driving force in our choices.

I agree everyone needs to act responsibly--energy companies included. However, some of the proposed regulations for emission restrictions are very expensive and Americans will not absorb the cost of implementing these stricter regulations. People freak if gasoline prices rise more than ten cents a gallon and scream "conspiracy!"

The unfortunate truth is, everyone wants to save the world, as long as someone else pays for it.

Perhaps this CO2 idea is good or bad--I don't know, but at least someone is trying to think of ways to solve a problem, which could be considered a step in the right direction.

 

[cheeks69]

The problem is trying to solve one problem and then creating a bigger one. There's no question that the U.S. is the biggest polluter in the world. They make up less than 5% of the world's population but produce 1/4 of all polluting emissions. But this is a world problem and people have to change, one way or another wether you want to or not change will have to happen if we want to survive:explode:

 

[deanerk]

I agree with you LisaB. Transportation makes up over 40% of our anual energy comsumption in the states. As long as they're on the market here, people will continue to buy Hummers and other rediculous vehicles. The new governor of our most progressive state in emission controls (CA) owns a fleet of Hummers (9 at last count I believe). Everyone has a right to own as many Hummers as they want, but the problem lies in that their manufacturers are not held to fuel comsumption standards that make any sense. We've had the technology to build hybrid or electric cars for over 20 years but how many did you see today? How come we can't buy Hummers that get 35 MPG? IMHO it's because oil companies are making people rich and a lot of these rich people know sombody who knows somebody who can make sure bills aren't passed that require standards on fuel economy that make sense. It's not a conspiracy theory. It's just plain greed and what a lot of people think of as the "American way". That said, I own a small SUV that makes a lot of practical sense for my way of life and my business. I just wish I got 50 MPG. We're all guilty - some more than others...