Bush plan to reduce global warming could devastate sea life

[HAP]

Originally posted by ReefLady
There will be no name-calling, flames, or any sort of personal insults.

Sorry, mom (eerrr, I mean, mod...)

If you're looking for me, I'll be in my room...

 

[ReefLady]

HAP,

I'm not sure I understand. I was not referring to you (or anyone in particular) when I posted that.

I was simply trying to state the fact that I want to let all discussions such as this one continue, as long as there are no personal insults.

Maybe I worded it wrong, if I did, I apologize.

 

[HAP]

RL, I was just trying to lift the mood with a lttle humor...I took no offense. You are so right regarding the need to keep it impersonal. I apologize if you thought I was taking a shot at your wise guidance. This topic had gotten a little heavy and needed a shot of HAPpy juice.

 

[ScottT1980]

The point of my post is that instead of bashing a man and his plan we should sit down and discuss the idea and look for ways to improve upon it to find a hybrid solution. Too often people line up along party lines and throw stones at each other and pat themselves on the back for hitting the other side while the problem worsens around them.

I don't think anyone is bashing a man (but I haven't reread this entire thread so I might be missing some of the details) but more or less giving there opinions of the positives and negatives of pumping CO2 underneath the ocean floor. Of course, as you know with all discussions in life, things can get a bit tangental and there are a number of "side issues." While I understand and appreciate this concern, I think the path taken is certainly valid to this discussion.

That is what I see in this thread. This topic of global warming somehow evolved into a discussion about the type of car one drives and how this somehow means they want people to see them as wasteful.

Again, this is just a furthur example of the western psyche and is a reflection of the very idea of putting CO2 under the oceans floor. Waste and consumption while trying to find the quick fix. While a hummer might be a bit of a stretch, it does have some value to the discussion in my opinion and is in no way political.

t is a typical partisan pattern to lay blame first and solve the problem when its too late and costs more. If you don't believe me, turn on the tube and listen to the political ads.

I don't think it is partisan, I think it is just our culture. Short attention spans, lack of foresight, buy now - pay later, could possibly even be one of the vices of the capitalistic ideology (although here we get a bit political).

I don't want to get off-topic here. I agree that global warming is a problem. I just don't agree with bashing a plan I don't have personal knowledge of and no alternate solution to offer.

I certainly respect this idea wholeheartedly. I can sit here and bash Bush's plan or Clinton's plan or Western society as a whole but I can honestly not offer up a counter-solution. Most of us are not experts and by no means do we know more than those that proposed the plan. I think the skepticism and criticism lies in the fact that it takes the same path as many other environmental solutions (i.e. lets introduce species B here to take care of the pest A...oh, species B takes out C too, lets then introduce species D, etc...). Many times, I feel that cause and effect is not fully weighed with political decisions, no matter who is in charge...

Nevertheless, I do see your point and I certainly did not take any offense to it. I also don't want to get too off topic so I hope responding to your post does not move us away from the issue, I just wanted to offer some counter thoughts and opinions.

I hope at least a bit of this makes sense...

Take er easy
Scott T.

 

[deanerk]

Ya know, RL is right and hell, she's quoting me. I apologize for ducking out. I've had a rough day here at work and I guess I was taking things personally. I'm willing and happy to continue to participate if we can manage to steer clear of partisan politics. I'm out of work pretty soon and will have my own shot of happy juice when I get home. I could use a couple cold ones tonight.

Couple shots of Karma on their way to lighten the mood.

 

[DICK]

The main thing to remember is that neither you or me or any president or political party, any popular idea, any uprising by the masses or anything short of all out nuclear destruction is going to stop PROGRESS even if it will eventually annihilate the planet we inhabit. We are humans and our ultimate downfall will be the nature of our own species.
Sad but true.

 

[deanerk]

I agree Dick, but I don't think the answer lies in halting or even slowing progress. I think we just need to have more environmentally friendly by-products of progress or by-products that we're sure won't cause harm to future generations. Someone wiser than myself once said "Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children."

 

[Gremlin]

The next thing the government will want to do is dump garbage in the sea, you know out of sight out of mind. Oh wait they do -do that don't they.:columbo:

 

[johnlewis]

Good to See the great exchange, some good points. I do worry about the doom and gloom on some posts. I hope you don't really feel that way otherwise life is just going to suck ! I like to keep a positive attitude, and believe we can and will solve these problems.

There's no question that the U.S. is the biggest polluter in the world. They make up less than 5% of the world's population but produce 1/4 of all polluting emissions.

To say the US is the biggest polluter is a little bit slanted, yes we do use the most fuel, power ect..and do have a lower population. However Europe has polluted it's lakes and rivers for hundreds of years with pollution, India continues to, the former Soviet Union has toxic waste all over. So you are just looking at one form of pollution. It's a world problem not just a US problem, we humans take the easy way/lowest cost out.

The US protects many areas of with National parks, legislation, waste clean up etc.. I am sick of being called the worlds polluter wastefully, careless. It is just envy from the rest of the world that they use such terms. When is the last time you heard of 20,000 people dying in a few weeks from heat exhaustion in the US. I am sorry we take care of our poor and elderly whom don't have A/C.

By the way I'll take 5 hummers and 3 Yukon's not because I want to have a status symbol and waste gas. They are very safe and I can carry your Honda and tow a boat. Auto company's build cars and trucks to meet demand, they don't make demand. Example hybrid cars were meant to fill demand of people whom would like to save money decrease CO2 etc. They don't run on the field of dream philosophy if you build it they will come, if they did they would all be out of business.


Sorry for the rant,

:apint:

 

[cheeks69]

Originally posted by deanerk
"Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children."

That's a great quote I think I'll use that in my signature if you don't mind

 

[Otter]

simple logical movement...if the earth is a closed system.... and we are members of said closed system....won't we just end up finishing the problem eventually. I mean c'mon guys let's look big picture here...humans will inevitably extinct themselves :columbo: :explode:

 

[cheeks69]

Originally posted by johnlewis


To say the US is the biggest polluter is a little bit slanted, yes we do use the most fuel, power ect..and do have a lower population.

This is not my opinion or some number that I just pulled out of my hat that's a quote from Time magazine. I also mentioned that this is a global problem not a U.S. problem.

I try to have a positive attitude but the problem is I don't see any change. Scientists have talked about the consequences of continually destroying the environment for decades. People just don't take it seriously

 

[ScottT1980]

Originally posted by Otter
simple logical movement...if the earth is a closed system.... and we are members of said closed system....won't we just end up finishing the problem eventually. I mean c'mon guys let's look big picture here...humans will inevitably extinct themselves :columbo: :explode:

Well, this is the inevitable reality of course but we are not doing anything to help out the matter. Any species will eventually die out, well, except the cockroach ;-)

Now otter, how about those primative fish kidneys and that swim bladder?

Take er easy
Scott T.

 

[johnlewis]

Cheeks the point was not directed at you but you, hit it on the head, the media whom slants stories to sell. I know you siad it was a global problem but you will constantly hear from the 'media' that it's the US,s fault because we are a bunch of gluttons. When is the last time you heard about polution somewhere else in the world.

 

[johnlewis]

Cheeks the point was not directed at you but you, hit it on the head, the media whom slants stories to sell. I know you siad it was a global problem but you will constantly hear from the 'media' that it's the US,s fault because we are a bunch of gluttons. When is the last time you heard about polution somewhere else in the world.

 

[johnlewis]

Cheeks the point was not directed at you but you, hit it on the head, the media whom slants stories to sell. I know you said it was a global problem, but you will constantly hear from the 'media' that it's the US's fault because we are a bunch of gluttons. When is the last time you heard about pollution somewhere else in the world.

Believe me when they can afford too they drive big luxury cars all over the world, not hybrid's.

 

[cheeks69]

I didn't take it personal johnlewis It's a great discussion.
I hope people start to open their minds to the fact that we have monumental problems that will affect all of us wether we like it or not.

 

[deanerk]

Originally posted by cheeks69
That's a great quote I think I'll use that in my signature if you don't mind

Feel free cheeks! I think it's a beautiful little quote too.

 

[cheeks69]

Well after watching 'T3 Rise of the Machines' I feel better about our future