Bad LFS Advise!

[RookieAtBest]

Ok I need some help. I followed my LFS's advise and now am paying for it. I figured hey this is a Salt Water only store they know what they are talking about...wrong. Ok they said using tap water would be fine! Two (T8) 12inch lights would be all I would ever need for light. A fluval 306 canister filter would be the best filter option. My tank is over a year old now and realized they where full of it about 6 months ago. I've updated a few things to correct the situation.

Current Set Up: 60gal tank, fluval 306 canister filter, quad T5 H.O. Light system, NPX bioreactor, circulation pumps moving the water around 1200gph, reef octopus Bh-100 HOB skimmer, 50-60 pounds of Fuji live rock, 3.5 inch deep live sand bed.

Living in the tank: Red Corris Wrasse, Scopas Tang, Foxface, Clown, Singapore Angel.

Other: Frogspawn, Orange Plate Coral, polyps, Acan's. Coral banded shrimp, 3 emerald crabs, 24 hermits, 24 nassarius snails, 24 nerite snails.

And my big problem is nitrates and GHA. Nitrates are over 100 ppm. I need to get this down been fighting it for 6 months PLEASE HELP!

 

[PSU4ME]

How about some more information. Are you using RO/DI water? What is your salinity? How often do you clean the canister filter (they are nitrate factories), do you use carbon or GFO? Whats your phosphate reading?

Thanks and welcome to RS.

 

[DianaKay]

Hello :hallo:
:welcomera WELCOME to Reef Sanctuary

PSU4ME asked some good questions & I'm sure you'll get the you need here.
Unfortunately lots of LFS employees "just work there" and don't give advice from 1st hand experience
They like to sell what they have on hand even if it's not what you need to be successful.
I hope you stick around RS & get some 1st hand advice especially now when you need to make a difference for your fish & corals. Share more & keep a close check on this thread

 

[Tigersref]

first thing.... we need more info (as PSU4ME is asking).

nitrates are caused by one or more of the following reasons:

- use of tap water (tap already has nitrates in it)
- insufficient water changes (nutrient export)
- insufficient maintenance of canister filters (they are nitrate factories if not cleaned out often)

common cures include (but not limited to)
- proper and often canister filter maintenance
- increase water change frequency
- use RO/DI water


not sure that a GFO reactor will help because they are meant to remove phosphates, not nitrates. Speaking of....... what are your phosphate levels? phosphates are probably the cause of your GHA.

 

[Snid]

Welcome Aboard, Matey!

Sorry to hear about your woes, but all may not be as bad as it seems. Having the answers to PSU4ME's questions will really give us a lot of ideas about where to start. Here is why he is asking what he is...

Are you using RO/DI water?

- Tap water frequently has Nitrates in it, so any water changes or top offs using tap water can be introducing Nitrates into the system. Based on your post, I'm guessing that you aren't using tap water any further. For the sake of sanity, however, it might be good to test your RO/DI water for Nitrates. Some salt mixes add Nitrates as well, so it might be just as good to test the water you use for water changes as well just to be sure.

What is your salinity?

- Salinity can help keep Algae growth down. Reef tanks do well with a salinity level around 1.026. FOWLR can do less, but you mentioned corals in your livestock. If yours is less, don't make rapid changes. (In fact, any changes you make ought to be introduced gradually because you have an established ecosystem that has been living in the environment it has been provided)

How often do you clean the canister filter (they are nitrate factories)

- BY Nitrate factories he means a trap. If they are not cleaned often enough, they trap and hold onto too much detritus which in turn cycles through and eventually becomes Nitrates. How regularly you should clean it is dependent upon things like how much and how often the fish are fed, how many there are, etc... Some people that still use such filters clean theirs out weekly.

do you use carbon or GFO?

- Carbon is great at removing things from the water, helping keep it clean. GFO is great at removing Phosphates, which is also a nutrient that Algae thrives on. I myself just installed a DIY GFO reactor in my system. Hence the next question...

Whats your phosphate reading?

- There are a lot of products out there that can be used to reduce Phosphates. Be careful with some of the filter pads designed to pull out Phosphates as some corals are sensitive to them. Filter pads, like canister filters, would need to be cleaned regularly as well. GFO media needs changed every 3-6 months there abouts.

 

[RookieAtBest]

I'm using just filtered water from a pur spicket filter. Salinity is 1.024. I clean the canister filter once a month. I'm currently using carbon. What is GFO? And no clue what my phosphate levels are now I'm currently using PhosGuard in the canister to help that out and I change that every two weeks.

 

[RookieAtBest]

I also do weekly water changes about 10 gallons every time.

 

[Snid]

I'm using just filtered water from a pur spicket filter.

There is part of the problem (maybe all of it). Pur water filters do not remove Nitrates from tap water, so with every top off and water change you are introducing Nitrates back into the system.

Here's a response from Pur in regards to Nitrates when someone else asked them if their filters removed Nitrates...

Facebook - PUR

 

[RookieAtBest]

.

 

[RookieAtBest]

.'

 

[RookieAtBest]

This is what I'm looking at every day! Just can't kill all that GHA!!

 

[RookieAtBest]

Sorry about the empty posts I had to make 5 posts so I can put the photo up....lol.

 

[Snid]

I'm currently using carbon. What is GFO? And no clue what my phosphate levels are now I'm currently using PhosGuard in the canister to help that out and I change that every two weeks.

GFO = Granular Ferric Oxide. Phosguard would serve the same purpose. You should get a test kit for Phosphates and test that every so often. You have no real way of knowing if your Phosguard media is exhausted without testing and seeing if levels rise overtime. According to Seachem, Phosguard should be used in small quantities and changed every 4-5 days. So your Phosphates could be raising and lowering every other week.

 

[Snid]

As of now, I'd recommend gradually raising your salinity up to 1.026. You can do this overtime by using mixed water that you use for water changes for your top offs as well. The gradual increase of salinity will happen as small amounts of additional salt enter the system with each top off.

Someone else may want to chime in on this next tidbit, but I am not a fan of Phosguard. It requires too much work. I went with Phosban because it isn't as needy, and there are other products out there as well. And to be honest, I might be switching from Phosban to something better still, like Kent Marine Phos Reactor perhaps.

Test that water coming from your Pur filtration system, I suspect it will have Nitrates. You'll probably want to see about getting RO/DI water from somewhere, whether it comes from the store or you install a new filter. And as mentioned before, even if you get RO/DI water, do a test of the mixed salt water too as the salt mix you are using may be introducing Nitrates.

...

More questions have popped into my head now, of course. What do you have as far as your Clean Up Crew is concerned? How much?

 

[RookieAtBest]

I listed it above. 24+ hermit crabs, 24+ nassarius snails, 24+ nirite snails, 3 emerald crabs, coral banded shrimp. Had turbo snails but the would die after a week or my wrasse would make a meal of them...lol. It leaves crabs and shrimp alone just lives those snails. He will be gone soon going to remove all but the Scopas Tang to clean up the algae. LFS is good for trading not info...lol.

 

[Tigersref]

I use the Bulk Reef Supply GFO reactor. I do admit that it is a bit of a PITA to maintain, but i have zero phosphates (using hanna digital checker).

 

[reefer gladness]

Speaking for myself I'd ditch the canister filter immediately. That's a good-sized skimmer for a 60g tank and I feel the canister filter has more potential for harm that outweighs it's potential advantages.

Get yourself an RO/Di unit asap. You can buy RO/DI short term but the unit will pay for itself in the first year if you have to buy RO/DI from your LFS. This is your number one problem.

Massive water changes after you get the RO/DI unit - dilution is the solution to pollution. If using RO/DI water a 50% water change will reduce nitrates from 100ppm to 50ppm. Another 50% water change gets you from 50ppm to 25ppm, etc. You might not be able to mix that much at one time but the water changes are needed to bring nitrates down below 10ppm.

Make sure you are using a temperature corrected refractometer to measure salinity. Salinity is not a factor contributing to your high nitrates. Increasing to 1.026 will increase the concentration of elements like calcium carbonate and magnesium that are used by your corals but I don't consider this a priority in your tank right now. Deal with the nitrates first.

Other good questions asked regarding the clean-up crew. Knowing your feeding habits will also be helpful, most new aquarists overfeed which further contributes to the nitrate cycle.

 

[RookieAtBest]

Yeah I feed once or twice a day. Morning I feed two pinches of pellets a 50/50 mix of formula one and formula two ocean nutrition. Evening feeding I feed Rod's reef frozen foods just a square the size of your fingernail. Is that a good enough CUC? And am I feeding too much?

 

[reefer gladness]

Cut way back on the Rod's frozen food, once a week for now as a treat maybe twice a week later on when you get water quality under control. It's great food but far more coral food in the regular mix to be using it every day, I had algae issues when I fed Rods every day too.

CUC = clean-up crew. We're asking about the invertebrates in your system that form part of the ecosystem and feed on detritus and algae, i.e. various snails, crabs and urchins.

 

[RookieAtBest]

I know what CUC is...lol. I have listed my clean up crew is what I have enough?