250 MH or 400 MH's??????

danny254

Member
The DE bulbs do put out more light, but it's a matter of "is it really worth it to deal the the heat for a little more light," If you more concerned about that you can put a mogul base bulb 8 inches from the water and still be safe, if you did that with a DE lamp, there would be a much bigger risk of shattering the safety glass on the fixture.
 

Maxx

Well-Known Member
Danny,
thanks for the input. I had read that article previously, but couldnt remember where it was from. I think an important thing to note is that the author states
it is not a fair comparison. First of all, having the lights suspended so high above the tank is not the ideal way to get light into the tank. Most tanks seem to have the lights between 5.5” to 8” off the water. Secondly, the water was fairly turbid, mixed with quite a bit of micro-bubbles from the skimmer. The tank was also bare-bottomed, meaning that these are the deepest readings I have taken, with the sensor a mere 1” off the bottom of the tank.
These bulbs were mounted 9.75 and 15.5 inches respectively off the waters surface. Have you heard of the inverse square law?
It is used in photography and is referenced for lighting subjects...but it applies here too. From petersons photographic library..." The inverse square law is the basis for our understanding of the relationship between distance and illumination level....The law states that the intensity of light decreases as the sqaure of the distance between light source and subjucet increases."
To clarify this the book makes a couple of comparisons..."Let's assume that you have a light source placed one foot from a subject, and you double that distance by moving your subject back two feet from the subject. You're not just cutting the light in half, as you might suspect. You're reducing the light by four times (two squared = four). If you now increase the the subject-to-light-source distance to three feet, you've decreased the illumination level to 1/9th its original intensity, (three squared = nine)."
So keep that in mind when placing lights above your tank and the height you go with. Most people will place their lights any where from 5-8 inches off the surface of their water. If you realize this and then go back and look at the picture of the sunlight supply tank, (mogul/SE ended on right @ 9.75 inches and HQI/DE on left @15.5 inches of height) you'll see that the results are the same when the DE is almost twice as far off the surface of the water. So if we apply the inverse square law here, by placing the DE pendant at the same height as the mogul/SE pendant, the DE would produce almost 4 times the light that the SE/mogul would.
Thats pretty significant to me....:) For 4 times the light, I'll find a way to cool the water.
Another thing I noticed about this test was that the author didnt take measurements of the philipines underwater to get a reference to our tanks....just some thoughts,
Nick
 

Maxx

Well-Known Member
BTW,
Travis is one of the Admin's here...he's also a professional photographer...feel free to ask him about the inverse square law.
Nick
 

ReefLady

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Nick, you have just stated pretty much everything I know about the inverse square law. LOL :)
 

danny254

Member
Good point Nick, now I understand more about the intensity of DE compared to SE, but don't you think, since you can put a SE much closer to the water, they would be pretty similar in intesity, directly under the bulb, I understand the spread would not be as good as if it were 12 inches off the water rather than 9, but In cases where you don't need a huge spread, it might be fine.
 

Maxx

Well-Known Member
Danny,
If you're gonna cool the water anyway, why not place the DE's closer to the surface of the water? I personally think that one of the main reasons people don't use DE more often is simply because of one reason, and a consequential effect of that reason. The heat thing is an issue, period. It can cause alot of troubles that unless you adequately prepare for, can wipe out your tank. Since its a hassle to think through potential problems, (not just here, society as a whole. And I'm just as guilty as the rest of the planet, so please don't think I'm climbing up on a pedastal...soap box maybe, but no pedastal:D ), most people will just go with whats easier. Since most people will go with whats easier they generally gravitate towards mogul based bulbs/set-ups. Since this is what most people do, there are more options available in mogul/SE bulbs. Consequently, since there are more options available in the SE/ Mogul range, then more people will gravitate towards those choices...vicious cycle...rinse, wash, repeat....
to be honest w/ you. I've only recently purchased an HQI/DE set up. I will have it up and running (hopefully) here shortly, and I will be able to give you guys my personal experiances. I am planning on having the tank run w/ just rock in it for a few months prior to placing in any corals. This will also give me time to fine tune the tank, and deal w/ any instability or heat related issues.
Nick
 

danny254

Member
Nick,

I switched to DE from SE not long ago. The reason for that was I didn't like how my old lights were mounted with a not-the-best reflector, my ballast was HQI style, and I would have better air circulation with just 2 fixtures. Rather than how I used to have it. And part of the reason is that with how the new lights were mounted there would be less heat added to the water and the hood would be much more open for access. I did notice when you put your hand 5 inches below the DE's it's noticably a lot hotter. I never actually measured the difference in light coming from the bulb, but I know its not noticable to the eye. As far as coral growth, there are way to many variables to say that one light is better than the other for growth.


That was my reason for going to DE over my display, I still run SE over frag tanks, mainly for like what you said about it being easier setting up SE fixtures.
 

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Maxx

Well-Known Member
Neat set up Danny! You have what looks like a return flow that goes over the cross brace in the center to keep it from getting too hot? Smart call. Can you post other pics of your set up? I'd be interested in seeing the rest of your lay out, to include pics of your rock work...thanks
Nick
 

Pro_builder

Well-Known Member
Danny that is a reall ynice setup that you have there. What are the black boxes that you have on your spray bar?
Thanks for the pictures.
 

danny254

Member
Well, here's a picture of the the whole thing. Frag tank in the refugium w/ 250w SE ushio over it in a home made pendant.
 
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danny254

Member
Here is the sump, without the light over it. I love this design!!
 
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danny254

Member
My custom pendant, made from polished aluminum sheet metal. This baby has the 250w SE mh
 

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danny254

Member
My recent batch of Montipora dig, frags!! I have 40 in the pic, but got 30 more being fragged w/ in the next week.
 

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danny254

Member
Troy,

The black things are ball vavles to control the flow on each different head.
 
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danny254

Member
If anyone was wondering if a 250 DE mh lamp fits in a reagant 500w halogen fixture, It does.
 

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