Weird white spots on Regal Tang but they really don't seem like ich!?

[SeeK828]

I am so used to getting questions on what was explained in posts, that I don't get annoyed anymore.

Just as long as things are clear in your mind -- that is what is important to helping the fish.

You are the Best!
Lets hope I won't disappoint you and cure the tang!
He is still doing alright.
No further symptoms.

 

[SeeK828]

Back with some news!
I started the Cupramine treatment last night at around 8pm, which is about 10 hours ago
Water parameter are all still the same
SG at 1.010
Amm. at 0
NO2 at 0
NO3 at ~20ppm
pH at 8.25
Alk at 11dKH
Temp at 77F

All was fine last night.
However, I woke up this morning and was scared to see that my angel was not swimming around.
For a while I was afraid that it is dead but it is NOT
it is definitely being stressed though
the angel now hide in one of the decor I put in there at all time.
back then she only hides in there when the lights are off at night and spend the daytime swimming around and come up to the front glass asking for food when she sees me.

The tang is still the same hidding in one of the back corner.

the biggest problem is both fish seems to have stopped eating.
I fed them twice last night after I put in the Cupramine and they were still eating back then.
But today they refused the first feeding which was NewLife Spectrum pellets.
They both ate this as part of their diet back then.
I will try a little bit of mysis shrimp later for the second feeding. They used to eat this too.
But i doubt that would work because both fishes seem too busy hidding i wonder if they will even notice the food around.

I know that Lee had mentioned that copper might make them stop eating
but i'm getting very worry with the stopped eating and hiding
I did the water parameter tests twice.
once was a few hours after I added the Cupramine last night.
the other was just an hour ago after I found out the fishes are not eating.
the results are the same
the parameters seems to be constant at this point with no problems.

Is there anything I can do?

ps. i initially wanted to raise the Salinity before I start with the copper but I know it is going to take me a week to do that and I didn't want to delay starting the with the copper. That is why I started copper in hypo despite of Lee's recommendation. I figured I can monitor the pH closely to avoid and problem because I have the pH monitor on at all time and I have quite a bit of time for the coming weeks to watch over the tank. Have I made a big mistake?
Should I abandon the Cupramine treatment for now (not adding the second dose 48hours later as the bottle states) and do water change to raise the SG first?

I peeked into the decor with a flashlight and didnt see the Angel with any sighs of disease.
the body and fins still looks clear of parasite and, though i couldn't see clearly, i don't think she is breathing heavily.
In fact both fishes still seem to be breathing fine.

one last thing, after the night the water now seems a bit brownish in color.
the color does look quite copper-ish.
Is that normal? I just want to make sure.

Thanks in advance and sorry again for the long post.

 

[SeeK828]

Just tried to feed frozen mysis shrimp as the second feeding of the day
The shrimp was enriched with Selcon, Kent Zoe Marine, and Kent Garlic Xtreme.
The fishes didn't eat again.
Well, they were hiding in decorations the whole time. So either they didnt eat any or they ate SOME that drifted into the decor but I couldn't see.

 

[SeeK828]

One last question,
should I stop trying to feed for fish for a while?
or keep trying?

 

[leebca]

As I may have previously mentioned, I don't recommend performing both a hyposalinity treatment at the same time as a copper treatment. The medication people and a lot of other people will 'say' it is okay, but I don't.

To answer your questions and concerns:
You didn't provide a copper concentration reading; you did not provide me with the test kit brand for copper testing you are using. Has it expired? What is the reading?

If you followed directions on the Cupramine, then your first addition should be half of the total. The fish should not be reacting like this if you added the correct amount. Tell me how you measured the medication out? How much water is in the QT and exactly how much of the medication did you add? Did you add it to the QT directly, spread it around, to an outside device or? just let me know, pls.

Hypo AND copper treatment impose some stress on the fish; but the hypo should not be a source of the major stressor. Still hypo can impose other water quality issues, like pH stability, that will be stressful for the fish. When was the last time you calibrated your pH meter and probe? How old is the probe? Were the standard pH solutions the correct range? were they fresh? Is your meter calibrated by a two-point or single-point standard? Cross-check the pH with another meter or test kit.

I don't think you've made a BIG mistake. At least not with doing both together. However, I'm looking for another problem or error. There is now the added variable of the lower salinity. How are you measuring the specific gravity? If by refractometer, has it been calibrated to sea water, or are you using one for salt water? or are you using another type?

Cupramine doesn't turn the water 'copperish' nor 'brownish.' There may be a slight cloudiness or slight bluish tinge to the water, which goes away. The colors you've reported are not as expected.

Tell me everything (again if necessary) that is in the QT. List everything (equipment and life forms, and decorations, etc.) that is in that system. What is the decor made out of? Is there any substrate? live rock? or ?

Always continue to offer food. Fall back position now is to try living food (live brine, tiny red worms, etc.).

Waiting for more information. But for now, perform a very large water change (over 75%) according to the recommended procedure in the sticky, in this Forum. Add no more Cupramine to the new water until I get all the above answers.

Hang in there!

 

[SeeK828]

Glad to hear from you again, Lee.

I couldn't yet get the Salifert Copper Test Kit as you have suggested.
The store that usually carries it is out of stock at the moment.
I have to resort to using API Copper Test Kit for now.

Both the test kit and the Cupramine are new.
I bought them a few hours before I started the treatment.

I have tested for Copper at least 3 times after I added the first dose of Cupramine. The API is quite hard to read but I'm sure it is no where near the 0.5mg/L concentration of the final concentration.
Right now it is very hard to tell if it is showing 0mg/L or 0.25mg/L.
I'm guessing it is in between
The funny thing with the API test kit is that although the color chart goes gradually darker in color as the copper increase from 0.5mg/L to beyond, 0.25mg/L looks LIGHTER in color than 0mg/L. So i'm quite confused at the moment.
But again, it is not 0.5mg/L yet, thats for sure.

I read about the half dose info from your post too.
That is why I am quite puzzle why the fishes are reacting so strongly.

The bottle suggested 16drops or 1mL per 10.5gallon.
My tank is 45gallon but I have been leaving off about an inch on top to lower the volume to ~40gallon.
I did that ever since I have started treatment with Maracyn Two for the ease of calcuating dosage.
If my math is right, with the hangon power filter that I'm running, my volume should now be ~41gallon. I made it just above 40gallon to be safe.

Then I did the math with the copper dosage:
40gallon * 1mL / 10.5 gallon = 3.809mL
OR
40gallon * 16drops / 10.5 gallon = 60.95drops

Since I don't have a very accurate volume mearsuring device, I used an old test tube with 1mL increment.
I put 60 drops of Cupramine in it and it come up to just below 4mL on the testtube.
I figured that should be right and I added the whole thing directly into the tank. I added it on the Tang's side, in case that matters.

My pH meter is the American Marine Inc. PINPOINT pH Monitor.
I WAS still using the probe that originally came with until late last night.
I broke the probe while trying to clean it last night and now I have to scramble to get one back quickly.
The unit was bought about 6 months ago.
I last calibrated it about 2 months ago with 2 point calibration.
The solution used was American Marine Inc.'s pH 7 and pH 10 standard solution.

I measure specific gravity with a refractometer.
It is Sybon Portable Refrectometer Opticon Series FG100sa.
I have had it for more than 2 years.
I calibrate it with RO water as the instructional manual suggested.
I last calibrated it about 2 months ago.

Equipments/Things in the QT right now:
One PVC pipe for hiding in the Tang's side.
One Sunken Ship decoration with holes for hiding in the Angel's side. I'm not sure what it is made of but it is plastic and I bought it from a LFS. Should I remove it and replace it with PVC just in case? Will I disturb the bacteria population though?
One home made eggcrate divider in the middle of the tank.
One hangon Power filter - Penguin 330. I removed the foam pad as it came with carbon in it. The bio wheel is still running and I also have an old sponge in it. The sponge has been in it for a long time just for the bacteria's sake.
One ~10cm long airstone
two heater, one on each side
two powerhead, one of each side.
no subtrate, no live rock.

A few final questions,
could this problem be the result of me doing the Cupramine treatment right after the Maracyn-Two treatment without doing a waterchange?
Especially the color, could the color of the water be the result of mixing the two medication? I remember the water was a bit yellowish with the Maracyn-Two in it.

Also, I remember both you and the Maracyn-Two's instruction have mentioned about the Vitamin B in the medication and how it helps giving the fish an appetite. Should I add some, or full dose of, Maracyn-Two into the QT and try to help their appetite?

I would try doing waterchange for now and hopefully I will hear back from you soon!
Thanks sooo much for this, Lee!

 

[SeeK828]

Just one more question,
Should I add carbon and/or other chemical filtation back into the QT to remove the copper at this point and try again with copper later on in the future when the fishes are doing better?

 

[SeeK828]

quick update.

The fishes seem to be doing better.
They are a little bit more active now.
Still not as active as before the copper treatment but the Angel now occasionally swim out of the decor and take a quick lap around her side of the tank.
The Angel does still look quick nervous as she move way more quickly then before and often take quick dash in and out of the decor or just around the tank.
The Tang seems a bit less listless too. He now occasionally swims up and down along the back corner.

Both fish seems to have started reacting to food a little bit more now.
I put in some nori and the Angel picked at it a little. But I don't think she ate much.
The Angel is a bit more interested in the pellet and the mysis now but still doesn't seems to have eaten a lot.

I saw the Tang ate a little bit of mysis.

It has now passed the supposed time of the second dose of Cupramine.
I didn't dose and decided to wait and spend a bit more time to observe how the fishes are doing before I decide if I am going to continue with the copper treatment.

I have not made any waterchange yet as I don't have my pH monitor running. I should be getting my probe tomorrow then I will probably do a waterchange.

 

[leebca]

I am suspect of that bit of decoration. I would remove it for now. There is a chance it may be leaching something out of it.

The Maracyn Two and Cupramine should mix, however I must say that combo was meant to be at normal specific gravity. The lower salinity may be the mystery maker.

I would remove the decoration, and add back some pipe (make sure it is scrubbed clean and with no residue on the pipe, including the glue where any price tag was placed); perform the recommended water change; then continue on with the Cupramine treatment -- using a Salifert Copper Test Kit.

You will be removing some bacteria when you remove the decoration, but if things are 'good' anyway, this should have no negative impact on the biological filter. Still, monitor for ammonia and nitrites closely.

I'm unfamiliar with that refractometer. I'll leave it to you to determine if it is the right one to use. Look up its instructions or look it up on the Internet. Somewhere it must say that the refractometer was built specifically for saltwater measurements.

Add no Maracyn Two just to gain the appetite stimulant. Fish can go weeks without food, providing all other stressors are eliminated or reduced. Since they seem to be 'coming around' this addition now would not be advisable.

No need to use carbon. The water change will take care of any problems much quicker and more effectively than the use of any chemical filtration. Even when the treatment is over, use a very large water change to get the bulk of the copper out, then use activated carbon to bring the copper to below the test kit's ability to detect it.

Sounds like the fish are rebounding from the 'shock' of 'something' that happened. The water change is most important.

Hang in there. I'll check the Forum more frequently today if you have any other questions.

 

[SeeK828]

Thanks Lee,
The Tang is definitely eating now.
Though he still hides beneath the pipe throughout day and night, I did see clearly that he dashed out of hide and ate a few mysis shrimp.

The Angel, on the other hand, is making me worry for a bit.
While she is still as active as I have said last night and seems to really want to eat, she keeps spitting out all the food that she take bites of, such as the pellets and mysis.
She picks at the nori a lot but I can't see clearly if she actually ate any of it or just teared it apart because I see a lot of the nori drifting around the tank.

I will do the waterchange as soon as I can, hopefully tonight.
I will also start raising the SG slowly.
I will remove the decor and get some pipe.
I am seriously considering getting the 20G and moving the Angel to it now.

I will report back as soon as there are changes

 

[SeeK828]

Back with some update.

I have removed the decoration just in case and put a PVC pipe in there in its place.
The Angel doesn't seems to be too bothered by that.

I still haven't been able to make the waterchange that I desperate need.
I am having some problem with the pH and Alk of the newly mixed water.
I spent the morning reading a couple article on pH, Alk, Calcium and Magnesium and, though I suspect I have a magnesium problem, I'm still not sure what the problem is.
I'm hoping maybe a can get some tip from here.

My waterchange water usually start with pH of ~8.0, Alk of ~8dKH, and Calcium of ~420ppm when it is mixed to the SG of 1.024.
I usually use baked baking soda to boost the pH and KH higher before I use the water. I usually aim for pH of 8.2~8.3 and 11dKH.

2 nights ago, in anticipation of the QT waterchange, I checked the parameters of the 10gallons of 1.024 water that I have been mixing for close to a week already. (I wasn't going to use all so don't worry, will explain later)
During that time I didn't have my pH monitor with me so I only checked SG and Alk.
The SG was 1.024 but Alk was only 8dKH.
I was puzzled that the Alk is still at 8dKH because I have been adding about 1teaspoon of baked baking soda per day for around 2 days prior to the testing.
I thought maybe I needed to add way more so this time (2 night ago) I dissolved about 2 teaspoon of baked bakng soda in about 4~5 cups of water and added it directly into the 10gallons of water.

I came back last night and checked Alk again to find that it is STILL at 8dKH.
By last night I have already fixed my pH monitor so I gave it a check and was even more puzzled to find that the pH has dropped to 7.8.
I also started seeing some light precipitation forming on my heater and pump but the water seems otherwise clear and I couldn't feel much precipitation on the bottom of the container.

My question is, can I add too much baked baking soda to make it work in the oppsite way? (lowering the pH and not increasing or even lower the Alk?)

I wanted to know because I wanted to use ~3 gallons of these water to do a quick waterchange for the QT and raising the SG a little bit at the same time (I did this before and this volume with this SG should raise the QT no more than 0.002 SG)

I have taken quite a few chemistry class and read a couple of articles on this, including those Lee suggested, but I just never seems to be able to fully understand and control this pH and Alk problem and it is getting extremely frustrating.

I'm heading out to try to find a magnesium testkit now and see if that is the problem.

Hopefully I can figure this out quickly so I don't delay the waterchange any longer, because the Angel is still not really eating anything, though still active.

 

[SeeK828]

Latest update with feeding.

The Tang looks to be eating as normal.
I just fed him some mysis shrimp and he seems to have ate quite a bit.

The Angel, however, is not eating.
I can now say with confident that the Angel has not been eating anything at all.
All the food that she used to accept she refuse now.
The puzzling thing for me is that she still seems to recognize the food as food but there seems to be some problem with her actually eating them.
For example, she will still go take a bite of the pellet sinking on the bottom of the tank and go to the front glass and tear at the nori.
but wherever something actually enters her mouth she will spit it out right away.
Initially I thought she was eating SOME nori but now I think I'm sure she spit back out everything.
Otherwise she seems fine with no visible spot, very active and look alert.

Could she be posioned?
Could this be some diease with her throat? Making her unable to swallow?
Is there anything I can do besides a waterchange because mixing the water takes time, and not to mention the many problem I am also suddenly having with making the water.
I can't stand just waiting around anymore.

Thanks

 

[SeeK828]

Just one more question if I may, Lee.
And I will try to keep this one short.

In one of the books that I use for reference, it mentions that when coming out of a hyposalinity treatment, one should never raise the SG too quickly.
It suggests no more than 0.002 increase per day.
I think a lot of us can agree to that.
In addition, the book suggests that "As a helpful rule of thumb, one cup of salt per 50 gallons will raise the SG approximately 0.002 units once the treatment period has ended."
The book, however, never mention in what fashion should I be adding this one cup of salt to the aquarium should I want to do so.

If I may, I am looking for your opinion on raising the SG this way, Lee.
And if it is okay, how should I go about doing it?

I am thinking I could dissolve the salt in some amount of RO unit, raise it to the same temperture of the QT, and then add directly to the tank.
Is that okay?
If so how much water should I use to dissolve just short of 1 cup of salt? Does the around 1~2 gallons of daily top-off RO water sounds reasonable? If so I will be topping off the QT with RO water that has some salt dissolved in it instead of pure RO water.

It will help a lot if I can do this because I can then quickly get the QT out of hyposalinity and hense, hopefully, get rid of any problem that the hypo might have be casuing now without the need to wait for the mixing of water for waterchange.

I will, of cause, still try to make the waterchange as you have suggest and as it is needed, as soon as possible.

 

[leebca]

This delay in water change is not good. You need to always be prepared for this event. You will need to consider having on hand the needed backup supplies and maybe redundancy in equipment so this doesn't happen again. I keep 3 pH meters on hand, for instance. If one goes down, I have time to replace it or the probe, or both.

You are making the assumption that adding the bicarbonate is sufficient to control pH and Alkalinity. It isn't. You are also making the assumption that the change in pH and Alkalinity is almost 'instant.' It isn't. It takes time for the water to go through its chemical changes. Hence the recommendation in my post to wait 48 hours to verify that any change to Alkalinity and/or Magnesium, and/or calcium has gotten the water to where it has to be.

Go to the site that gives you an easy calculate for what to add to control those three: Reef Chemistry Calculator. When at the home page, click on the button marked "Traditional."

You don't have to be knowledgeable in chemistry nor well educated to use that calculator.

Mixing the salt in half a gallon of water is good. I would not just 'add it in.' I would drip it in and when the sp. gr. goes up the 0.002 points, stop the drip. The drip should be over an 5-8 hour time period. Using this solution would be a good idea to add back evaporated water with.

The Angel is probably fine. Just too much stress from all that is happening to it. Angels are quite sensitive to water quality and in general don't adjust to captive life very well.

 

[SeeK828]

Hey Lee, though I know I have said this couple of times already, but I really want to say thank you again for your continuous help and support.
Especially considering how I tend to write a lot and it must be quite troublesome and tiring to read.
So thank you. I really appreciate this.

Back to the topic,
Yesterday after my posts I went back to dealing with the water planned for the waterchange.

I was thinking maybe the problem is in part due to me adding the sodium carbonate (I was using baked baking soda) in excess and it threw everything off the balance, as you have tried to tell me countless time that it is not just pH and Alk in the work.

I looked into what I have at home and found the bottle of SeaChem Marine Buffer which I have purchased not too long ago. I figure this product has a lot more than just sodium carbonate (at least it states it has more) and it might help balancing things out, or at least it might do a better job setting the pH and Alk than just adding carbonate since it states that it has calicum and magnesium, along with the many other things.

I followed the instruction and the pH and Alk went back to acceptable range.
I knew I should’ve waited a little longer, as you have suggested, but my QT was also long overdue for the waterchange, so I only waited a couple hours (I think it was 2~3 hours) for the water to settle.

I kept checking the pH and Alk during those few hours and when the water was steady at pH of 8.2, which was the same as the QT at that moment, and Alk of 10dKH, I used roughly 2.5 gallons of the water for a quick and small waterchange for the QT.

I can’t say if it was indeed because of the waterchange or if it was just that whatever that was bothering the fishes was fading away, but the fishes seem to have gotten better.

The Tang seems to be eating as normal as before any of the treatment and started to swim a little bit again, although the spots on his face are still there.

The Angel, to my surprise, started eating the pellets again. It was about an hour after I did the waterchange when I tried to feed her. It didn’t seem easy at first but she kept trying and eventually I think she finally swallowed one. After that initial one pellet she seems to be gradually eating more now.

I also raised the SG by 0.001 last night with the small waterchange. So it is sitting at 1.011 now.

I have another ~5 gallons of water ready for waterchange for the QT and will do that after this post.

I will also take your advice on the technique for raising the SG. It sounds like the perfect way to do it. I am glad I can do it with that small amount of water because the larger the volume the harder it is for me to handle and prepare.

I will report back periodically but before I go I just want to ask a few more question about restarting the Cupramine treatment in the future.

At what point should I restart the Cupramine treatment?

And when I do restart the Cupramine, do I need to make sure that any of the copper from the previous dose is completely removed?

Also how should I dose at this point since I can’t follow the suggested two part dosage anymore? I’m guessing I can’t follow the two part dosage explained by you and on the bottle since there might be “old” copper present which might make me overdose. Do I just have to slowly add a little bit at a time and carefully watch as the concentration goes up?

Another long post but thanks for reading, again!

 

[leebca]

My original suggestion was to perform a large water change. If you followed that and performed a 75% or larger water change then picking up the copper treatment is fairly easy since no more than 25% of the copper is there, from just the 'half-addition.'

Previous copper doesn't have to be removed.

If you are trying to perform the 75% water change in multiple smaller changes, this isn't the same. The amount of copper there is low but higher than the 25%.

Add the half dose of Cupramine and do the copper concentration check with the Salifert Test Kit. Make the second addition according to those results, the next day, to bring the final into the range of 0.4 to 0.5 ppm copper.

I would not 'kid yourself.' The water change is what is helping. Something indiscoverable went wrong and we may never know what that is.

You're welcome to what help I can provide. Seems that things are improving.

 

[SeeK828]

Hey Lee,

It has been a while since my last update.
Since the last time I posted here, I have done a a few water change to the 45G QT.
When the fishes seem to be behaving as good as before I started the with the Cupramine, I let them rested a little and brought the SG to 1.017 over a few days.
I was going to wait til I got the SG to 1.024 before I try the Cupramine again but the spots on the Tang seems to be multiplying so I decided to restart the Cupramine treatment 3 days ago.

Just as last time, the Angel stopped eating, though this time she didn't get listless.
The Tang behaved normally. Kept eating but listless as usual.

I decide the Angel probably can't really stand the copper.
And since she is clearly suffering even in half dose I thought it would be too dangerous to push it to the full dose.
The Angel doesn't have any of the symptoms the Tang is showing anyways so I thought there is not much of a point making the Angel suffer through the copper treatment.
So, I setup a new 20G QT and moved the Angel there.
The new 20G QT was filled with 25% old QT water from the 45G and 75% newly mixed water.
The Angel started eating again almost right away.

I will keep the Angel in the 20G for at least 2 weeks and slowly bring up the SG to display lvl (1.024) over the time. If the Angel shows no sign of disease I will conclude that the "line" that I have been seeing on her tail all these time is probably something she happens to be born with or maybe an old scar.
I will then release her to the display.

The 45G QT, however, is a bit more tricky.
I am still not sure if the copper concentration is at 0.5ppm yet.
I have yet to be able to get the Salifert copper kit.
The only store in my area that carries it won't have them until weeks later.
So i'm still stuck withe the API kit.
The problem of that is I am not quite sure how to read the API kit and thats what I want to ask here.

I don't know if you have preivous experience with the API kit, Lee, but the kit ask for the user to view the solution from the top looking down on the test tube. While the instruction tells me to look down from the top on a white background, it didn't specify if the testtube should be actually ON the white paper or just be held above a white paper.
I am worry because it gives a vastly different result.
For example, with my 45G QT water now, if it is ON the white paper background, it would seem about 0.5ppm.
But if it is held above the white paper background, it would read 0.25ppm.
That is one whole step in the product's result scale! Since it start from 0ppm, then 0.25ppm, then 0.50ppm, and on and on.

So, do you have any idea how I should be reading this?

Thanks!

 

[leebca]

I don't know that particular kit. You might be able to send them an e-mail from their web site with that question.

The Angel has Marine Ich if it was with fish with that disease. If you put it back into the tank without the full treatment, the tank will have Marine Ich and you'll go through all of this again. If the Angel doesn't react well to the Cupramine then use hyposalinity in that tank. Keep the fish in hyposalinity for no less than 4 straight weeks. If during any of that time you see even one spot, start the clock over at the beginning. You want to have the fish at zero spots for 4 straight weeks. Then slowly raise the sp. gr.

I don't know where you live on the planet. But if you live in North America there are many online stores, including the sponsors of this Forum, that can mail/ship you a Salifert Copper Test Kit and have it to you within a couple of business days.

 

[SeeK828]

I don't know that particular kit. You might be able to send them an e-mail from their web site with that question.

The Angel has Marine Ich if it was with fish with that disease. If you put it back into the tank without the full treatment, the tank will have Marine Ich and you'll go through all of this again. If the Angel doesn't react well to the Cupramine then use hyposalinity in that tank. Keep the fish in hyposalinity for no less than 4 straight weeks. If during any of that time you see even one spot, start the clock over at the beginning. You want to have the fish at zero spots for 4 straight weeks. Then slowly raise the sp. gr.

I don't know where you live on the planet. But if you live in North America there are many online stores, including the sponsors of this Forum, that can mail/ship you a Salifert Copper Test Kit and have it to you within a couple of business days.

Hey Lee,

I will try to email the company.

I'm not sure if the Angel really has Marine Ich.
If you remember the beginning of this case, I have thought all these troubles were ich all along and the 45G was in hypo for close to 2 months.
The Angel never showed spots on her (beside the weird line on her tail) and I thought we have concluded that the spots on the Tang are not ich either since hypo did nothing to them and they never comes and goes and they are still there.

Is there really no way that whatever affecting the Tang does not affect the Angel at all? Does it HAVE to be contagious? Because, again, the Angel never ever ever showed even one of the signs the Tang is showing.

I am starting to wonder if the Tang is suffering from HLLE since it really doesnt seem contagious to me, unless for some reason it only hide in the Angel's gill and won't let me see them.

I want to get the Angel out of QT and to the definitely better envirnment of the Display as soon as possible because, though she is still small, a fish can always use more place and a relatively more natural environment, with sands and rock, right? Always a trade off and compromising game, i thought.

Finally, I live in Canada actually.
I can order online but didn't do it just because usually it is more troublesome doing so than doing it in America, and more expensive.
But i guess I really don't have a choice now.

Thanks again Lee.

 

[leebca]

Cool. If it isn't Marine Ich, then I'd go along with the Angel plan.

If the matter is in fact MHLLE, then the 'spots' are not raised up off the skin of the fish, but actually holes. Are they holes?