pH fluctuation, please help !
- Thread starter petarst
- Start date
hma
Well-Known Member
The vodka dosage is not really dangerous. Indeed ONLY NOT when you always stick to the rules, how actually everywhere in seawater-fishkeeping. Even with a slightly overdosing it can lead, as already from cbrownfish described, to a bacterial bloom and with it to extreme oxygen starvation in the aquarium. You must be in the situation to perceive even very minimum changes in the aquarium. If this is not the case, better leaves the hands of.
hma
Well-Known Member
btw chrownfish, which side- or long term effects should be this please?
Classical vodka exists of 40% of alcohol, the rest is water to thinner and hardly discernible flavourings of potatoes or wheat. The alcohol is oxidised or breathed to 100% from in the seawater latend available carbon-bacteria and the water should hardly be a problem. What should lead there to long term effects please? I answer the question already once, NOTHING!
A possible bacterial bloom is the only one what can happen. Dangerously enough if you note it not on time, but a long time effect, there I am foolproof, is there none.
hma
Well-Known Member
welcome Petar ...
If you start with dosing, acts slowly, very carefully and increases at the earliest every 3-5 days the dose on maximum 1ml like in my article described. With the smallest sign of a problem reduces the dose about 50% and sends me a PM or eMail (best with PICTURE). I answer what you can do. OK?
To your own safety; hold in each case in the first weeks (8-10) freshly set saltwater ready for an immediate WC. With it you are on the save side for the worst case (incredibly, but who knows?).
A lot of success
If you start with dosing, acts slowly, very carefully and increases at the earliest every 3-5 days the dose on maximum 1ml like in my article described. With the smallest sign of a problem reduces the dose about 50% and sends me a PM or eMail (best with PICTURE). I answer what you can do. OK?
To your own safety; hold in each case in the first weeks (8-10) freshly set saltwater ready for an immediate WC. With it you are on the save side for the worst case (incredibly, but who knows?).
A lot of success
cbrownfish
Well-Known Member
Sir, while I respect many of your posts, you are assuming a lot right now. You are also flippantly recommending that a new reef keeper enters into an experimental process of nutrient reduction, when reef chemistry is still very new to them!
Alluding to potential long or short term issues, has nothing to do with the source of carbon in the equation. Artificially raising the bacteria population by dosing a carbonic food source can indeed lead to a crash later on. Do you consider this inflated population stable for the long run? Do you really know? What if someone misses a week of dosing completely due to holiday or laziness? Short term, accidental overdosing can spike the bacteria population and cause a pH crash, nutrient crash, or a tank overflow when filters become clogged suddenly. Many skimmers increase production 10 fold and will simply flood the pollution they generate back into the system. One must have a plan in that regard or they can wake up to a mess one morning. The resulting high CO2 levels can suffocate your fish population and cause unexplained deaths. Long term, a heightened bacteria population can increase CO2 levels significantly and cause a chronically low pH. Long term dependence on a carbon source needs to considered and monitored carefully. A sudden stop can devastate a tank as well.
By the way -- I am an advocate of carbon dosing! What I am not, is an advocate of letting one bite off more than they may be able to chew. I am simply making sure that someone is considering the short and long term advantages/disadvantages as well as recognizing that there are many factors involved. You can't simply start dosing without closely monitoring a given ecosystem, especially with a new reef keeper who may not have the ability or experience to recognize problems.
hma
Well-Known Member
I would like to answer only briefly and also not on every single point .
Have you already selfexperienced all the enumerated possible problems? I think certainly not, but somewhere once read and one to one thus returned. It would be also very sad if.
All problems described by you are known to me very well, however, I have not experienced one of it during the last 20 years. However, so long I already pursue in one or other of my tanks the vodka method.
I am very often on business trips all around the world/europe. Sometimes only few days, but it was already some weeks. I never had with the vodka dosage problems. Defective pumps, Skimmer or lights, yes. Dying fish because one of the "poison fish" also keept by me was died, yes. Corals they fell down and damaged other and themselves, yes of course....., but never one single problem regarding to the dosage of vodka.
Overrun by one of my tanks there will never be. I use in principle the second emergency overrun in all my tanks and I think it a self-evident fact to use such a thing.
Long time problems, I could discover up to now none or I am simply too stupid to see them. Approx. 3 years ago I have taken part in a long time studie (more than a year/14 months) of one of the biggest European forums. From more than thousand participants only two had a problem.
In my article as well as here in the Thread I point several times to the possible risks, what remains to be done? I report only about my experiences. Things I have not experienced I cannot report. Parrot what has written somebody, somewhere once I don't do that in principle. I report exclusively about OWN experiences and not about the somewhere read. And whether somebody what I describes copies or not, is not in my hand. The person concerned must weigh this risk already by himself.
Have you already selfexperienced all the enumerated possible problems? I think certainly not, but somewhere once read and one to one thus returned. It would be also very sad if.
All problems described by you are known to me very well, however, I have not experienced one of it during the last 20 years. However, so long I already pursue in one or other of my tanks the vodka method.
I am very often on business trips all around the world/europe. Sometimes only few days, but it was already some weeks. I never had with the vodka dosage problems. Defective pumps, Skimmer or lights, yes. Dying fish because one of the "poison fish" also keept by me was died, yes. Corals they fell down and damaged other and themselves, yes of course....., but never one single problem regarding to the dosage of vodka.
Overrun by one of my tanks there will never be. I use in principle the second emergency overrun in all my tanks and I think it a self-evident fact to use such a thing.
Long time problems, I could discover up to now none or I am simply too stupid to see them. Approx. 3 years ago I have taken part in a long time studie (more than a year/14 months) of one of the biggest European forums. From more than thousand participants only two had a problem.
In my article as well as here in the Thread I point several times to the possible risks, what remains to be done? I report only about my experiences. Things I have not experienced I cannot report. Parrot what has written somebody, somewhere once I don't do that in principle. I report exclusively about OWN experiences and not about the somewhere read. And whether somebody what I describes copies or not, is not in my hand. The person concerned must weigh this risk already by himself.
cbrownfish
Well-Known Member
At the end of the day, my only point is this - In the hands of the experienced, most of the potential problems are avoided. Disasters follow the inexperienced and those who act in haste.
All that is left to say is this........
Heinz, you have wasted a LOT of good Vodka in 20 years!
Thanks for the exchange.
All that is left to say is this........
Heinz, you have wasted a LOT of good Vodka in 20 years!
Thanks for the exchange.
hma
Well-Known Member
At the end of the day, my only point is this - In the hands of the experienced, most of the potential problems are avoided. Disasters follow the inexperienced and those who act in haste.
All that is left to say is this........
Heinz, you have wasted a LOT of good Vodka in 20 years!
I haven't got a clue how many chrowfish, but I'll shed no tears over that.!
cbrownfish
Well-Known Member
I agree. No hard feelings, no fight. We are simply having a good exchange about the hobby we all love! If we don't challenge and push each other, then the hobby doesn't continue to advance. As it turns out, we are really on the same page but we see things through different eyes.
hma
Well-Known Member
PRODIBIO and vodka? A bad idea Petar, either vodka OR PRODIBIO bacteria. Both can become very dangerous together. Either one OR the other is to be used.
I would switch off UV C, it kills the carbon bacteria by the vodka are nourished. Then instead of the UV C I would use an Ozonieser there this works only in the Skimmer reaction pipe and therefore a majority of the carbon bacteria are preserved. However, the phosphate filter can be used further.
You should have saltwaters always available
360 L tank fill up + with 80 L sump = 440 : 3 = 146 L (Water displacement by stones and decoration) = 33%
440 L - 146 L = 294 L
10% of 294 L = approx. 30 litres
petarst
Member
You are very helpful, great advices I own you 1.
I don't have Ozonieser and I have heard that it could create problems, but maybe i will get one as soon i get skimmer until the end of this week. Any suggestions about Ozonizer ?
Anyhow, I have 366 litres in tank with sump together ( LR ammount calculated ).
cbrownfish
Well-Known Member
Case and point.........
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...-tank-had-hang-over-yesterday.html#post542014
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...-tank-had-hang-over-yesterday.html#post542014
hma
Well-Known Member
Anyone who acts like in the pointed thread described is in my view only one, BRAINLESS!
How can one be so stupid and dosing vodka AFTER vinegar and not be clear about the consequences arising for this behavior. That sort of behavior is what I call uninformed or better completely ignorant. Such a behavior is possibly as wrong as if I a burning oil barrel with water extinguishes. The reaction is violent accordingly.
On this subject I could still write even more, however, I better renounce.
One should not mistake a reef aquarium with cooking a "soup". We take a little from this and a little of that and at the end we have a tasty soup. It is such a negligent behavior from ignorance combined with stupidity (how in the shown Thread) what really well usable and actual methods as for example the vodka method bring in disrepute.
Only my opinion......
cbrownfish
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, not everyone looks at things from a logical and methodical standpoint like you and I do. Some personalities do that naturally, some heed advice and ask a lot of questions early on, others learn from mistakes and experience (some learn from a combination of those I suppose!)
Some never learn and are short in this hobby.
Some never learn and are short in this hobby.