1st death already in Hypo at 1.014, pls HELP!!

[cz08]

Hi folks,

I have the following fish below in hypo at 1.014, took 24hours from 1.020.

2 1/2" Porc puffer
2x 4" Green spotted puffer
3" Majestic Angelfish
2" Coral Beauty
2" red stripe dwarf angel
1 1/2" Clownfish marroon orange/gold
2x Lawnmower Blenny 3 "
1x 2" Dragonet madarin red+green
3" Starry Blenny


Ph 8.2
Amm 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 10
ph 8.2

temp 26oc

Internal filter 250gph with filter media from DT, floss and ceramic rings.

Been doing twice daily 10-15% water changes and testing the water 1-2x a day.

I was going to drop it to 1.010 today and then tomorrow 1.008-1.009 however the red stripe angelfish has passed.No bite marks, bacterial infection, never had ick only the porc has had ick.Looked vibrant and well fed.

This is the 2nd angelfish that has gone in a week, the first bicolour angel got accidently stung by the lionfish at night so 100usd gone already in a week!

All the rest of fish are fine but so was the red stripe last night eating away with no problems.
I wonder if I have done something wrong here or are they just more delicate. I have a coral beauty angel and majestic angel which I paid 180usd just for the majestic for and Iam worried they
will pass away too once i drop the salinity down to 1.009, any advice?

 

[Tru2nr]

Sounds like your dropping your SG too fast.

...im growing a reef not reefer!

 

[Jetbkk]

I don't think it is from dropping too fast. In fact, I did it over 4 days and every one told me I did it too slow! Apparently fish are better off if it DROPS fast but when you raise the salinity later you must go slow. How big is the tank? Is this the DT or a QT?

 

[cz08]

I don't think it is from dropping too fast. In fact, I did it over 4 days and every one told me I did it too slow! Apparently fish are better off if it DROPS fast but when you raise the salinity later you must go slow. How big is the tank? Is this the DT or a QT?

Thanks for your response.

Their in the QT atm which is 35g and the DT was 125g. Had most of them for only a week, apart from the 2 gsps which Ive had for 2 yrs. Everything was going well until Porc wouldnt eat for 4 days and then crypto appeared.

Agreed about the dropping of salinity another poster on reefcentral has said he and many other folks have dropped salinity at same rate or little bit quicker.

 

[Jetbkk]

That seems like a lot of fish in a 35g. That's the only thing that stand out to me.. I think that some fish don't handle hypo well, but most do. I'll let the experts jump in as I'm doing my first hypo QT with 9 fish (all 7 Wrasses + 2 clowns) in a 30g and I feel like it is pushing the limits space wise.

 

[cz08]

Thanks for your quick response.

I have another tank but it has tropical fish in it and also have a big rubbermaid but that is for the salt mixing.

Would a larger percentage of water changes help much at all ? I can also connect one of my external filters from my DT to the QT, it has a 250gph output with plenty of media.

I have just done water change of 30% which should bring it down to 1.012.I will do another water change to bring down to 1.010 in 4-6hrs time then finish of tomorrow at 1.009.

The odd thing is out of all the fish in tank the porc puffer is most active and personably, he was literally begging me for food at the top of water surface just there, dispite him being the culprit , oh the irony.

Iam hoping the angelfish make it alright seem to have bad luck with them.

 

[sk8rdn]

Make sure your temp is correct when doing water changes. And stay on your ph as well... Once you get low it will want to swing on you...

I agree that's a lot of fish for a 35. My guess is space induced stress, as well.

Don't use anything from your DT once you hit the hypo mark. Otherwise you may just be re-introducing the infections back to the fish.


...Moving On, Moving On...

 

[cz08]

Make sure your temp is correct when doing water changes. And stay on your ph as well... Once you get low it will want to swing on you...

I agree that's a lot of fish for a 35. My guess is space induced stress, as well.

Don't use anything from your DT once you hit the hypo mark. Otherwise you may just be re-introducing the infections back to the fish.


...Moving On, Moving On...

Thanks for your advice. I have heater in the mixing rubbermaid set to same as QT. PH has been 8.2 constant but I suspect it will soon drop to 7.8-8.0PH, if it goes below 7.8PH would it be best to start slowly adding in some mixed baking soda to the rubbermaid?

When you say dont use anything from the DT once hit hypo mark, should I remove the filter media as well which came from the DT?

What is your opinion on adding a 2nd external filter 250gph, more like 100gph with the media. I have a current 250gph internal atm in the QT.I want to keep the water as good quality as possible.

 

[sk8rdn]

When you say dont use anything from the DT once hit hypo mark, should I remove the filter media as well which came from the DT?

What is your opinion on adding a 2nd external filter 250gph, more like 100gph with the media. I have a current 250gph internal atm in the QT.I want to keep the water as good quality as possible.

I just meant that anything from the infected tank shouldn't be added to the QT AFTER you hit hypo, lest you run the chance of re-infection from the parasites/bacteria being present in the media or on the surfaces of the filter housing. I'd put in new media, were it me, just to be safe...

As far as filter use, I dont see any real plus to their use if your doing such frequent water changes, but use them if you feel so inclined. But note: any chemical filtration (carbon, GFO, etc.) should NOT be used with medications unless specifically called for by the manufacturer. Also, they shouldn't be done in hypo (usually), but I felt this was important to note anyway.

...Moving On, Moving On...

 

[leebca]

A drop in salinity from 1.026 to 1.008 sp. gr. units in 2 days doesn't harm a marine fish. Look for other problems. As suggested, not performing proper water changes. Be sure to read this: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...7-how-make-safe-water-change-marine-fish.html

Check water qualtiy, especially your source water. Have you checked our source water with a TDS meter recently? What are you using for source water? Are you following the guidelines in the above post?

Take a deep breath and investigate how you are doing things compared to the recommendations.

 

[cz08]

A drop in salinity from 1.026 to 1.008 sp. gr. units in 2 days doesn't harm a marine fish. Look for other problems. As suggested, not performing proper water changes. Be sure to read this:

Check water qualtiy, especially your source water. Have you checked our source water with a TDS meter recently? What are you using for source water? Are you following the guidelines in the above post?

Take a deep breath and investigate how you are doing things compared to the recommendations.

Thanks for your advice Lee. Yeah read just about all your stickies that were related to this issue , very helpful lots of great info.

Doing 2x daily water change 10-15% atm usually after feeding them to keep water quality good as possible.Yeah our water up here in Scotland is great , constant single digits on the TDS and that is tap water. Zero nitrates, nitrites,amm, copper, phosphates etc.Dosed with prime.

Manage to keep all my tanks at 5-10 nitrates.

I keep the source water mixing for at least 48hrs before adding to QT. It is around 1.011 atm and going to hit 1.009 later today.

Whats odd is that the angelfish seem more active in the lower salinity and the porc puffer seems to have slowed down abit. He was very active in the higher salinity but seems to be bit more chilled now in a good way, so fingers crossed!

 

[cz08]

Well the clownfish back top fin has started to rot. Is there anything I can add to the QT 1.009 as a treatment, would Melafix work?

 

[leebca]

If you are dealing with fin rot then you most likely are dealing with bacteria. Use an antibiotic like Maracyn Two.

Regarding Melafix -- http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...-melafix-pimafix-why-they-work-dont-work.html

 

[cz08]

If you are dealing with fin rot then you most likely are dealing with bacteria. Use an antibiotic like Maracyn Two.

Regarding Melafix -- http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...-melafix-pimafix-why-they-work-dont-work.html

Thanks Lee, have bought some M2 should be with me in a week.Unfortunately one of my lawnmower blennies have passed away. Not sure what is causing the deaths maybe just the stress of it all, hidden ick etc

The other lm blenny seems fine but they all seemed fine before passing. So far down 1 redtstripe angel,1 blenny. All 3 puffers and majestic angelfish havent changed in health at all, still hungry and active as ever.

 

[leebca]

Healthy fishes can usually ward off a bacterial infection. It's fishes that have another ailment, or which are not in top quality water, under fed or not fed properly, or which have problems with tnakmates or the enviroment.

Unless you can get some definitive symptoms, there isn't must to do. What can be done is to take an ill (still living) fish in to a college or university for taking skin, fin, and gill samples to identify the problem. Internet diagnosis usually only works if there is some kind of identifyable, clear indicating, symptom.

Good luck!

 

[cz08]

Healthy fishes can usually ward off a bacterial infection. It's fishes that have another ailment, or which are not in top quality water, under fed or not fed properly, or which have problems with tnakmates or the enviroment.

Unless you can get some definitive symptoms, there isn't must to do. What can be done is to take an ill (still living) fish in to a college or university for taking skin, fin, and gill samples to identify the problem. Internet diagnosis usually only works if there is some kind of identifyable, clear indicating, symptom.

Good luck!

Thanks again Lee for your valued experience, much appreciated.

Unfortunatley the mandarin has not made it. I could tell he would not as he would not eat anything including live food.

So Iam down so far 1 redstripe angelfish, 1 lawnmower blenny and 1 mandarin.

What is so odd is that the only fish that has been spotted with crypt is the Porcupine puffer yet by far she is the most personable and active fish.

Everytime I lift the lid for feeds she will bob her head up and down and spit water at me several times every day. At first I did not expect this and managed spit on my neck lol

When I put my finger on the glass she goes nuts trying to bite it several times. All the other fish are not even close to being as aggressive and personable as she yet she was the only one with whitespot, go figure.

 

[cz08]

Well good news the clownfish bacteria issue seems to have cured itself. Half a fin has grown back with no treatment. I saw my porc puffer puffer up for the first time today , what a cool surprise!

 

[ddelozier]

While adding an antibiotic to the tank couldnt hurt, More water changes cant hurt either, id postulate the deaths are due more to overcrowding and the Ich than anything you are or arent doing. that many fish in that small of a tank is not good for them long term. being crowded stresses some fish, and that makes them less able to fight the ich.

 

[cz08]

While adding an antibiotic to the tank couldnt hurt, More water changes cant hurt either, id postulate the deaths are due more to overcrowding and the Ich than anything you are or arent doing. that many fish in that small of a tank is not good for them long term. being crowded stresses some fish, and that makes them less able to fight the ich.

Thanks for your advice m8. Still awaiting for the delivery of the M2 seems to be taking a while.

Woke up today and the coral beauty is at the bottom floating around upside down. This was after a 50% water change late last night. Have kept the water parameters pretty decent at nitrates max 10. Placed around 12 pvc pipes in there for them to hide, the only fish that hide are the blennies and coral all the others swim around.

Ive noticed the ones that have passed did not eat much or hid most of the time, possibly it comes down to genetics.

Besides another water change anything else I can do for the coral to give it a chance to live?

 

[leebca]

Unfortunately, nothing to be done without knowing what the fish's problem really is. I think you're dealing with a mixed bag of problems. You've addressed the MI, but there is something else going on.