Copper - Treatment, Use, Problems

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leebca

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Thank goodness for copper! Thank goodness that the most troublesome and devastating parasites :eek: to our ornamental marine fishes are killed by the use of copper. But it can't be used casually or as a kind of 'answer-to-all' problems. It's use by aquarists comes with the need for responsibility and attention. After all, copper is a poison to our fish and in the effort to kill off the parasites, we can kill off our fishes. What's worse even, is the abuse of copper can shorten the lives of our captive fishes.

Copper is nowadays used almost exclusively to kill Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) and Marine Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum) infections on our ornamental marine fishes. (I'll use MI and MV to refer to these parasites and the conditions they cause).

I'm sure what is written in this post is familiar to some or all of you, in part or in whole, but it should be clearly stated in one place.



AQUACULTURE DISCOVERS CURE

It's not much of a secret. The ornamental marine fish hobby owes what we know about MI and MV to the studies, research and monies thrown at controlling these parasites, by the aquaculture industry. 70 years ago the aquaculture industry was plagued by these problematic parasites and then it was found that copper could kill both these parasites at a concentration that wouldn't kill many of the food fishes.

One issue that the aquaculturists faced with the copper treatment is how much free copper ions love to complex with carbonates and how lethal it was to the fish. For the aquarist, this means that adding copper in its ionic form to saltwater will cause the copper to attach to substrates, rocks, other carbonate-based things, and even glass! Treatment with copper requires diligence and control.



COPPER MEDICATION DEVELOPMENT

Copper Salt (Cu2+, cationic or ionic copper)
At first the basic copper medication was a water mixture of a copper salt (e.g., copper sulfate). The copper concentration in this form is hard to control in saltwater. Copper in this form will easily complex with carbonates -- even carbonates that were in the salt water making up the alkalinity! The copper would precipitate out of its dissolved state and no longer be available to do the job of killing off the parasites. These medications I remember well. When added to the aquarium water, there would be a 'cloud' of bluish-white haze in the aquarium water. This was some of the copper coming out of solution.

Controlling the copper concentration in this form was a problem for the aquaculture industry, and a nightmare for the hobbyist. The aquaculture industry had neither the time or the money to keep testing their water to hold the copper in the 'effective range' to kill the MI and MV, yet not kill their stock. This copper was so 'effective' at killing (even fish) that some fish just couldn't even live in the concentration it took to kill the MI and MV. By this, I mean to make clear that the copper in this form is very lethal even to the fish it is supposed to treat. This copper medication isn't even considered a choice by today's standards.

Then the use of copper 'crashed.' It was no longer allowed for use by the aquaculture industry. Food fishes cannot be treated (in the USA) using copper medications. The ornamental trade picks up the challenge.

Chelated Copper
The next major development in the medication, was to 'protect' the copper from complexing and coming out of solution so readily with the carbonates in the water. Thus came the 'chelated copper' medications. (Chelated is pronounced KEY'lated). The copper was more reliable for staying in solution. What was done was to shield the copper ion with a weak, very large molecule (e.g., Ethylenediametetraacetic Acid, a.k.a EDTA) The copper ion still complexed with carbonates and the copper still precipitated out of solution, but not as much. The chelated copper was more stable compared to the plain copper salt medications. More fish now could be treated with this form of copper. But the most sensitive of fishes (e.g., dwarf angelfishes, some large angelfishes, some tangs, and scaleless fishes (sharks, rays, eels, etc.)) could not be treated with this form of copper.

Complexed Copper
The serious breakthrough came when the copper, instead of protected by a weak complex in the chelated form, could be chemically bonded to a protein molecule. In this case, the copper is still lethal to the MI and MV, but it keeps an arm's length away from affecting the fish. It resists complexing with carbonates making the concentration much easier to control and to get to remain steady. This copper form could now be used on any ornamental fish, and scaleless fish. This complexed copper is safe and yet effective at killing off MI and MV.



THE NATURE OF THE COPPER

When copper ions get into our aquarium water, they will complex with several other salt water ingredients and some of the things we put in our aquariums. Copper ions, as noted above, are very fond of forming complexes with carbonates. When they do, this complex is not very soluble at the pH of our aquariums and it will precipitate, or come out of solution.

Copper ions will do the same with rocks and substrates that contain any form of carbonate materials. This is one reason why it is best to use copper medications in a bare-bottom hospital tank without live rock, dead rock, and carbonate based decorations.

The precipitated copper-carbonate will redissolve if the pH of the aquarium water goes down. This has the effect of suddenly increasing the amount of copper in the tank water. So, the aquarist thinks they are in control of the copper concentration only to find that there is a surge of copper when the pH drops. In addition to maintaining the effective copper concentration, attention has to be given to the holding the pH of the water steady. By the way, this surge in copper, no matter how short of time it is, is enough to permanently injure, poison, or kill the fish being treated.

Another thing has to be made clear about copper as a medication. It is a poison as has been stated previously. Copper can and does cause stress in the fish and thus, does some harm to all fishes at detectable (by test kits) concentrations.

Copper medications do harm the fish (see last section) without the aquarist even realizing. In 'effective concentrations' that kill the disease organism, copper stresses the fish and in effect is slowly killing it. Furthermore, (even in low concentrations) copper can stress the fish and weaken it, allowing all sorts of other conditions to affect the fish. Lastly, and most importantly, copper poisons the fish even in low concentrations and shortens the life of the fish (see last section).I have to be the 'adult' here! Copper is not a toy!

If you decide to use a copper treatment the fish might stop eating. Copper is a stress to the fish and some fish respond by not eating, acting in a peculiar manner, or becoming afraid of its own shadow/reflection.

Lastly, if you choose to use a copper medication/treatment process you should know that the equipment will need special cleaning after the treatment if inverts and/or corals will be kept in the QT.



EFFECTIVE CONCENTRATION and TREATMENT

Not only does each type of medication have its own effective concentration, but so does each manufacturer's product. We can't make any general statement about how long to treat or how much copper needs to be in solution for it to do its job. Simply put, only the medication manufacturer knows what they put in the product and thus how to properly use the product.

In short, follow the manufacturer's treatment recommendations very closely.

But no matter what the copper medication manufacturer recommends, the aquarist needs to know what copper concentration range should be used in the treatment. Only the manufacturer knows this.

And since only the manufacturer knows how to properly test for the copper in their medication formula, the aquarist needs to know what copper test kit to use in measuring the copper concentration.

Armed with:
the medication;
having the right test kit for copper recommended by the copper medication manufacturer;
knowing the copper concentration range the manufacturer recommends; and
a bare hospital/quarantine tank

the aquarist is ready to perform a copper treatment. Some manufacturers try to make it easy by just stating in their instructions to add a quantity of their medication per gallon (or per some other volume) to your water, but in the marine aquarium world, everyone's tank is different. One addition doesn't work the same in all hospital tank systems. You need the control of measuring, knowing the target copper concentration range, and holding the copper in that range.



OVER- and UNDER-DOSING

The copper concentration has to be kept in exactly the correct range for it to work properly. As stated above, only the medication manufacturer knows what range is right for their medication. So I can't and no one can say a general/proper range.

In the case of using Cupramine, the manufacturer, Seachem recommends that at first the amount added is half the final dose. Then later the rest is added to bring the concentration to 0.5ppm. FOLLOW THESE DIRECTIONS. Adding half dose allows the fish and biological filter to have a short time to acclimate to the addition of copper. After the second dose totally mixes in, then start the testing for copper.

However, if the copper concentration drops below the concentration needed to kill the MI and/or MV, the treatment will have no effect.

Likewise, if the copper concentration exceeds (goes above) the high-end concentration, the fish could suffer, become poisoned, and/or die. This is a situation where clearly, more is NOT better.

If using Cupramine, use either the Seachem Copper Test Kit or the Salifert Copper Test Kit to measure the copper concentration of Cupramine. Many hobbyists complain the Seachem Copper Test Kit is too hard to use. Fortunately the Salifert Kit isn't.

For the above reasons, it is important that the aquarist knows how much of the copper is in the water and doing its job. AND must keep it in that range. Any slip means the treatment time has been wasted (and possibly will kill the fish if overdosed).



PERSONAL PREFERENCES

I have my own preferences of these medications. I have used several copper medications since I began keeping saltwater fishes in 1968. With the current advances and availability of good copper test kits like we've never had before, I strongly recommend the use of Cupramine as a copper medication. It is in that third category of being a complexed copper and very safe for use on all ornamental fishes including sharks and rays.

The proper copper test kits to use for Cupramine medication is either the Salifert Copper Test Kit or the Seachem Copper Test Kit. I hear many complaints about how hard it is to read the Seachem Test kit. And the rumors are true that in late 2005 and early 2006 there were Seachem Copper Test Kits on the market that expired before their time and gave erroneous readings. But. . .who's perfect?

The Salifert Copper Test Kit is quicker and easier to use. However, it goes from 0.5 ppm copper indicator straight to 1.0 ppm copper (with no in between comparison color/shading), then the next color is greater than 2. ppm. Cupramine is best used between 0.3 and 0.8 ppm. So this scale doesn't give you much information. You can use Cupramine very effectively at 0.5, though 0.6 ppm is preferred for the 'tougher fishes.' For sharks, angelfishes, etc. 0.3 to 0.5 ppm would be preferred, in my opinion. There is a way around this test kit situation.

If you prepare freshly made up saltwater (like you were doing a water change) and test that for copper, you can then use that to dilute your tank sample water for the Salifert Copper test, remembering to account for any copper reading of the freshly prepared water. Thus, you can get the relative accuracy you need from the Salifert Copper Test Kit reference colors. (Just remember to calculate the copper concentration reading by the dilution factor).

NOTE: In the case of using Cupramine, the manufacturer Seachem recommends that at first the amount added is half the final dose. Then later the rest is added to bring the concentration to about 0.5ppm. FOLLOW THESE DIRECTIONS. Adding half dose allows the fish and biological filter a little time to acclimate to the addition of copper. After the second dose totally mixes in, then start the testing for copper, ammonia, and nitrites.

Keep the copper reading between 0.4 and 0.5 ppm unless otherwise instructed to use a different concentration. If you are treating a fish (like one of the Dwarf Angels or Eel) that are known to be sensitive to copper, the treatment copper concentration level should be between 0.3 and 0.4 ppm copper on the test kit reading. NOTE: ALL FISHES (including Dwarf Angels and Eels) can be treated with copper IF you are using Cupramine.

One advantage of Cupramine is that it is a 14-day treatment AFTER the copper concentration is up into the range (after the second dose). Other medication manufacturers claim their treatment takes longer or shorter, but the 14-day treatment makes sense when you review the life cycle of MI and MV.



READING THE COPPER CONCENTRATION

The Salifert Copper Test Kit (as an example) does not give a reading exactly where you want to hold the copper concentration? No problem. First, no test kit can mark every single unit -- the color difference wouldn't be discernible with the human eye. So the increments on the comparative card/chart jump so the eye can actually see a difference in color intensity.

You'll need a quarter container or larger to make up some saltwater in (plus any equipment needed to do this);
You'll need two clean and dry small containers (at least) able to hold about a cup of water;
You'll need the test kit and the test tube/container used to test the water; and
Some clean stirrers (plastic straw, swizzle stick, tiny spoon, etc.) to mix a small amount of water.

Make up a small batch of new salt water. Test it with the copper test kit. It should not get any copper reading. Good. (This is an important step - don't skip it). Now take some of the water with copper in it (from your QT for example that you've added Cupramine to) in a small container. Dilute it by half by adding an equal amount of the fresh saltwater to an equal amount of the QT water into a clean, second small container. Mix it. You can eye-ball the dilution, or you can measure it out with using an eye dropper (two eye dropper fulls of QT added to two dropperfuls of fresh saltwater) or using a tablespoon measuring spoon (one spoonful of each water into the second clean, dry container). Remember to mix well.

Now sample the mixture into the testing tube as instructed by the test kit. Do the copper test on the mixture. Get as good a reading as you can from the color comparison chart. Now, double that ppm. That is the ppm of the original sample. All kinds of dilutions can be made. The goal is to dilute the sample to a place where it can more easily be read when compared to the color chart. Then multiply that number by how much the QT copper containing sample was diluted. Pretty easy!



DANGER !!!

Treating with copper cannot be done with many other treatments and medications.

Copper should not be used with any kind of sulfa-based antibiotic.
Do not perform a copper treatment in a hyposaline solution. The copper may become lethal to marine fishes in a hypo treatment where pH can fluctuate. Cupramine can work with hyposalinity, but it is nonsensical to stress the fish extra when one or the other treatment will work.
Hyposalinity only cures one parasite -- Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans). Copper kills Marine Ich also, so there is no purpose in doing both the copper AND a hyposalinity treatment at the same time (see above red).
Cupramine can be used with Maracyn 2 and other antibiotics that are NOT sulfa based.



What can go wrong?

Treating with copper can cause or lead to any or all of the following:
1) The fish stops eating from the stress of the copper;
2) The biological filter stops or slows (some bacteria go into a stasis mode when confronted with the copper ion). The aquarist has to monitor ammonia, pH and nitrites daily during the copper treatment. Such affected bacteria will resume their function, but it may take days or weeks;
3) Water parameters change. Diligently monitor copper, pH, ammonia, and nitrites;
4) Excess stress on fish. Lower lighting and perform treatment where few humans go, to avoid additional stresses;
5) Copper contamination of equipment. Copper is not easily removed to low enough levels after its use. If the QT and equipment will only be used for fish, then a thorough soap cleaning should be good enough. If the QT and equipment will be used for inverts and/or corals, a special cleaning will be necessary; and
6) I've successfully used Cupramine two years after it has been opened, past its shelf life. However, it is prudent to use Cupramine that has been on your LFS's shelf less than a year.


DON'T USE COPPER UNLESS NEEDED

I seem to be get a cyclic surge in hobbyists wanting prophylactically treat their fishes. Every so many months a group of hobbyists thinks they invented a new approach to the Marine Ich and Marine Velvet problem. Yeah, right! NOT! On the surface, it seems fine. However, shame on me for not making it more clear about why this shouldln't be done.

Copper is a poison. It just so happens that at low levels it kills the parasite before it kills the fish. It does harm to the fish. It will shorten it's lifespan. Most 'old' hobbyists are aware of the struggle of getting fish that we NOT collected using cyanide. At some places on the planet, cyanide solution is squirted on the fish in its hiding place in the wild. The fish is left unconscious for a time. It regains consciousness to find itself in a plastic bag on its way to a collection point where and, when enough are gathered, will be exported to another part of the world.

However, cyanide is a poison, and like copper it will shorten the lifespan of the fish. Some of the cyanide collected fishes live for a few days, some a few months or even a couple of years. But, the fish was poisoned and will live a shortened captive life. This is what copper does, but when controlled, does this to a lesser extent.

A fundamental mandate in veterinary circles is: "Do no harm." It is what vets live by. If hobbyists would be willing to do the same, then they would not use copper or ANY treatment method on fishes which do not need treatment, except in three cases noted in my posts: All need to be de-wormed; Anemonefishes need to be treated for Brook (if wild-caught or in contact with wild-caught fishes); and certain Tangs need to be treated with copper since they are so highly likely to be carrying one or both of the two most prevalent parasites known in the hobby.

Keep on reading and thanks for the reading you are doing.
:read:


I hope I've provided some understanding regarding copper treatments. Post your questions or ask if you would like any elaboration. :)
 
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Woodstock

The Wand Geek was here. ;)
RS STAFF
Lee,
What is the recommended salinity for a hospital tank using cupramine? I know you state no hyposalinity levels but what would you recommend for a 'safe zone'?
 

leebca

Well-Known Member
I would recommend keeping the specific gravity in the range for most of the captive marine life forms -- 1.022 to 1.027 -- unless the particular life being quarantined has other requirements.
 

Woodstock

The Wand Geek was here. ;)
RS STAFF
I begin counting down the 14 days when the copper level reaches .5, correct? Can I include the days when it was between .25 - .5 ?
 

leebca

Well-Known Member
Yes. No.

14 days starts when you verify for the first time that you are in the 0.3 to 0.6 ppm range.

Good luck! :thumbup:
 

Woodstock

The Wand Geek was here. ;)
RS STAFF
Okay. The level is constant now :)

They're doing very well so far. Even the achilles tang is beginning to eat again :thumbup:
 

leebca

Well-Known Member
That is a very good sign. You are doing things correctly. Sometimes copper stops some fishes, especially Tangs, from eating. Give the best nutrition you can along with supplements.

Watch water quality closely. :thumbup:
 

Woodstock

The Wand Geek was here. ;)
RS STAFF
Lee,
Today is the last day of the 14 day cupramine treatment :dance: and all is well! I have successfully kept the copper level in the acceptable range.

Tomorrow, the 15th day, I plan on performing a water change and adding a polyfilter to begin removing the copper.

I have not seen an ICH spot on any of the fish since about the 2nd or 3rd day of treatment. Yay! They will remain in the hospital tank until December 24th (another 5.5 weeks) to ensure my main display is fallow for a full 8 weeks. As long as I do not see any signs of ICH within this 5.5 weeks, I will know that the treatment was successful, correct?

Also, I want to deworm them using prazipro and metronidazole sometime before 12/24.
Is it safe to use both medications at the same time?
When is the best time to deworm them?
After a week or two of rest from the copper treatment?
 

leebca

Well-Known Member
Correct. Watch the fish for at least 4 weeks and if no spots show, it is considered clean.

De-worm at any time now. Both meds are okay at the same time, but be sure they are eaten not put into the water as a water treatment.
 

Woodstock

The Wand Geek was here. ;)
RS STAFF
Uh oh... I was planning on putting the medicine in the water. The tang only eats nori and the copperband is very picky and won't eat the mush with medication in it. :dunno:
 

leebca

Well-Known Member
The Tang won't live long on just nori/seaweed. You'll have to work on that.

Praziquantel is 'tasteless' at the very low amount they need. You might want to try the Jungle food or foods already including the meds. These can be fed directly or added to other food.
 

Woodstock

The Wand Geek was here. ;)
RS STAFF
The tang is a regular pig when it is in the reef and eats a variety of foods.

So the water treatment will not work??

How do I measure and make sure each fish gets the appropriate amount of medicine? Is there a possibility of the smaller fish overdosing if they eat too much? The little guys are pigs and eat until their tummies poke out. I just can't see how I could possibly give a certain amount to each fish...
 

Doot77

Member
Question for either of you two, I ended up getting the cupramine last night for my ich treatment and was thinking I should do a water change to get the medicine that I was using out and starting over with the Cupramin or would it be ok to add that to the existing copper in the tank until it was up to the dosing level?
 

leebca

Well-Known Member
Cupramine surprisingly goes along well with many different kinds of medication. You didn't mention what med is in the water.

Since it is a copper med of some sort, I would not want it around to interfere with the work of the Cupramine. The conservative approach is to do as you think, a large water change, before starting the next medication.
 

WALLY89

New Member
i heard live rock can suck up copper. and releases it later. is this true? how long later does it release it?
 

leebca

Well-Known Member
It depends. If it is 'typical' live rock then it has a carbonate base. In which case the live rock can take up copper and if the pH shifts, will release it later. It releases it whenever the pH goes down. It is the cause of many deaths in marine fishes. A quarantine tank for instance, must not contain any carbonate decorations otherwise it will interfere with the copper treatment and sometimes even other medications.
 

Terrie

New Member
Lee (Leebca)

My Name is Terrie, I started about 6 months ago with a salt water aquarium. I have learned from reading your artical on Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon Irritans), that you are to QT all new fish, wish I had new that from the beginning. A couple of my fish have come down with Ich and I now have all my fish in a QT tank. I had already purchased Mardel CopperSafe and have not started using it yet as I just picked it up today. Do you know anything about this treatment, how to use it and test for it or should I go out and purchase Cupramine instead? I am very confused about which medication to use, for how long, what temperature as mine changes in the QT tank with the light on, what gravity to have it at (I use a hydrometer) and should I do a fresh water bath before I start the treatment. Any help you could give would be much appreciated.

Thank You
Terrie:
 

leebca

Well-Known Member
WELCOME TO REEF SANCTUARY!

The details you need for a quarantine tank are found here: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums.../23584-fish-quarantine-process-step-step.html Don't know if you've gotten to that post yet or not. Most of your concerns should be handled there.

With regards to CopperSafe, it seems to be about the only copper medication that has gotten a less-than-good reputation. I don't know why for sure, but it has been given a thumbs down by many of my peers. Other than this, I know nothing about it.

I would and could only recommend Cupramine and the Salifert Copper Test Kit not only because I'm sure it works, but it is, for the reasons given in the copper post, a safe copper medication.

Just proceed to treat the fish with the copper medication when they are all in quarantine and you've gotten the medication, test kit and information clear about handling a quarantine. After treatment, hold fish in quarantine to verify the treatment was a success. Also leave the display tank system go fishless for no less than 8 weeks.
 

jettie1767

New Member
Lee, I'm on week 2 of trying to build a bio filter on the sponge filter I've put in the DT. QT is now setup with heater, thermometer, new SW and some PVC pipes. Just waiting for about 3 weeks for my sponge filter to get populated before I move the fish in QT for the copper treatment. Surprisingly, fish are all eating good and only one is showing white spots. So, I think I've got time to setup the QT up properly.

My question is this....when I treat the QT tank with copper, do I do any water change during the 14-day treatment or do I do the water change after the 14-day treatment is complete?

Also, how do I 'vacuum' the detritus out of the water without siphoning the water out? I think I read in the write-up that I need to clean the QT everyday. So, do I put the treated water back? Or, do I have to replenish it with SW prepared with copper beforehand?

Am I right in assuming that any pails I use to store SW with copper in it cannot be reused again for anything else?

Thanks!

Warren
 
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