Flame angel laying on side and breathing rapidly

[Matt spivey]

Any experts on flame angels?

My Params are all fine, good in fact. Rsm 130d a few months old. All other fish are fine and doing well as usual.

This happened overnight, I woke up to find him pressed against the overflow section so I went to net him and he swam off and eventually dropped to the floor on his side.

That was 9am this morning and now it's 12:23am the next day. He wasn't acting strange night before and was eating well as normal.

His stomach may be quite pale white I can't quite tell at the moment but I noticed it earlier, this is a sign of haemorrhaging isn't it? What would that mean?

Internal parasite such as oodinium?

Still alive now and has moved one in the past few hours, very rapid breathing.

This is awful to watch and I'm unsure whether to euthanise or try to treat more.

Thanks


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[reefle]

That sounds terrible Sorry to hear. The fish I had that exhibited that kind of behavior didn't make it. First and foremost is probably to set up a QT tank for it. Worst thing that could happen is whatever is ailing it gets transmitted to other fish.

 

[reefer gladness]

Hey Matt, what's the current stock list in your tank? And actual water parameters?

I recall you having a very ambitious stock list for your 130D and the tank is about 2 months old correct?

 

[PSU4ME]

Can you see any signs of ich?

 

[Steve L]

If you can set up a quick quarantine tank with copper I would do it immediately. A fresh water dip would probably kill it at this late stage.

Flame angels are highly prone to health problems and the odds are usually stacked against you. If they survive the first 6-8 weeks then it will "probably" be ok as long as no new sick fish are introduced to the tank. I've lost 2 before and my current one spent a month in quarantine after a fresh water dip, and it still came down with pop-eye after going into my display tank. The eye healed and it's been going strong for about 4 months so I think I'm ok for now (knock on wood).

If you can get them to live they're great fish with tons of personality and are beautiful to look at. If I ever buy another one I'm going to quarantine it with copper for a week before a month in a regular quarantine tank. The last one I bought for my daughter had a fresh water dip at the fish store, then a month in quarantine and it still brought a case of velvet into her display tank than killed almost all of the fish.

 

[Matt spivey]

I put in in QT with cuprazin copper medication. My LFS buys his fish from TMC and they use copper in their systems to pre treat the fish.

I said my Params are good as in as they're expected to be because I couldn't be bothered typing them all out when you all know ha my bad for being lazy,
0 ammonia
0 nitrites
0.5 nitrates
0 phosphates
Salinity 1.24
Temp 26 Celsius

The fish was fine for a few weeks. Stock limit is ambitious yes but even below RSM's recommended limit. If I put the time in to test and change the water like I do then there's really no problem. The fish all have separate territories and I watch them daily.
Points for using the word "ambitious" though, very polite of you as I know most will disagree with me ha


I suspect some form of internal parasite but we will see.



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[Tokalosh]

Hey Matt, I hope this reaches you in time and that the flame is still alight.

Do lots of water changes and then some more, keeping you SG at 0.1026 and plenty of flow.

I don't suspect that you have any internal persists, but I do suspect the flame is finding the water parameters a little out of whack.

Tok

 

[Mike Johnson]

I seem to remember reading your ambitious stocking list, too. Although a Flame Angel is a small fish, they require a large aquarium. I've had one for several years and it uses every inch of the tank. They are very active fish, always swimming, through every inch of the tank. The recommended tank size for a Flame is twice as big as your tank and I don't think they factor in overcrowding. Sorry, I don't get as many points on diplomacy as reefer gladness.

I would put Angels into the same category as Tangs when it comes to acclimating them to captivity. For them to adjust to living in a tank it should be a mature tank of at least one year with plenty of natural foraging.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+16+444&pcatid=444

 

[DaveK]

... My LFS buys his fish from TMC and they use copper in their systems to pre treat the fish. ...
The fish was fine for a few weeks. ...

That could be your problem right there. Copper needs to be used very carefully. If your LFS, or someone else along the supply chain over dosed copper, it could easily kill the fish in a few weeks.

While it's not so common any more, there also use to be similar problems what cyanide was used to capture fish in the wild. The fish lived a few weeks and then suddenly died.

 

[Matt spivey]

I read about the cyanide before. I just doubt TMC in their huge warehouses/quarantine facilities would get it wrong, it will be a constant flowing system I've seen them before when reading up.

The flame looked very happy I must say up until the last day, we all know how a stressed fish looks. It used mostly the side of the tank that I was at and fed very well.

Don't worry Mike I appreciate your honesty and being straight is something that needs doing!

The ambition was due to seeing successful aquariums the same as mine housing this kind of fish so I thought I'd give it a go, I'm no expert but I'm in close contact with my LFS who has 30 years shop experience and 42 years hobby experience so I don't feel like I'm risking it but I'll reconsider everything.


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[ziggy]

although successful aquariums you might see with your flame and that tank size, the key points to that success might be the slow gradual maturation of the tank, and acclimating livestock slowly (1 item every 4 weeks) so both livestock and bio-load filtration are able to adjust slowly with any sudden changes that will cause stress

 

[Matt spivey]

True you're right, I get far too excited and when I saw levels were fine I rushed it a bit.

I saw that even with my level of fish in a small time that I didn't really even have to do a PWC after 2 weeks (the usual rate I do them at) so I thought obviously the bio filtration was sufficient.

I think the flame just got ill though, it's unfortunate but still happens. It was fine for a few weeks then got rapidly ill over one night. It was actually the day I changed my skimmer to the tunze 9002 and installed the media rack. I used a bit of milliput that day too that floated off into small particles that the flame was swimming about in


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