dKH advice for SPS novice please

PCDS

Active Member
Morning all, I'm sitting here with my coffee so the thread should hopefully get more coherent as it goes on. I added my first few SPS frags to my nano tank on Tuesday. Yesterday morning my Alk was 2.5 Meq/l ( 7 dKH) and like an idiot I added buffer too quickly correcting up to 3.5 Meq/l ( 9.8 dKH) ( there was also a 20l water change. )

I know you are not supposed to correct more than 1.4 dKH per 24 hrs.
Last night the corals seemed okay - could there be a delayed reaction over the next few days?

If as I hope I have this time gotten away with it, I am a little confused about the optimum dKH. In my reading, some times it suggests that with just a few small SPS corals you don't need the dKH to be that high ( but with some thought I am wondering if this is more about dosing needed to correct dKH as small frags are not likely to deplete Ca/Alk that quickly?)
I am not looking for really rapid growth but I do want my SPS corals to thrive. I will probably have more LPS corals than SPS overall ( they are my favourites)

For those of you with SPS corals, could you please tell me what Ca/ Alk levels you keep at?
(The Ca was 450 and the pH was 8.0)
I will do daily checks on Alk and Ca over the next few days to see how much it drops.
I am really excited about this tank and would really appreciate your advice.
 

Rini

Well-Known Member
Just want to share my way.

Since starting my tank ( 10 months ago) I'm following the red sea program. And I'm using their guidelines as show in the picture below.
I have an mixed tank. Lps (frags), sps. Both species are doing very well.

I try to get my number shown as in below picture: SPS corals/frags.
Since I have mostly frags.

Knipsel.PNG

It is with everything I think. 2 people 3 opinions.
As soon I think the frags are big enough I switch to SPS coral-Mature Low nutriend system.
That will take a while :)

goodluck.

edit:

Forgot to mention.
My current levels : CA 550 & MG 1500.
It is overshot a bit, working on it to get it lower. Not adding the components.
 

PCDS

Active Member
Just want to share my way.

Since starting my tank ( 10 months ago) I'm following the red sea program. And I'm using their guidelines as show in the picture below.
I have an mixed tank. Lps (frags), sps. Both species are doing very well.

I try to get my number shown as in below picture: SPS corals/frags.
Since I have mostly frags.

View attachment 45737

It is with everything I think. 2 people 3 opinions.
As soon I think the frags are big enough I switch to SPS coral-Mature Low nutriend system.
That will take a while :)

goodluck.

edit:

Forgot to mention.
My current levels : CA 550 & MG 1500.
It is overshot a bit, working on it to get it lower. Not adding the components.
Thanks. That's what I meant about two levels for growing and established SPS corals.
 

chipmunkofdoom2

Well-Known Member
It's going to be tough to find a list of the "perfect" parameters, even for SPS. There's some consensus within the hobby on what range you should shoot for, but there are those who run levels outside that range that still report great success (and no, I was not referring to this type of "great success").

First and foremost, if your corals are not yet depleting Ca and carbonate AND your salt mix gives you good values (7ish dKh, 420ish ppm Ca), I wouldn't dose anything (except maybe Mg because most mixes are low on this). Stability is more important than actual numbers, and there's no sense in starting to dose unless you need to. Dosing is something that you can't really stop once you start. If your corals are depleting Ca/Alk, then obviously you'll need to dose... but dosing to hit a number is not worth it (IMO) if you can keep parameters stable with water changes.

Now, if you do need to dose. The general consensus is that SPS grow best with alkalinity above that of natural seawater. Many shoot for 10 dKh or higher, as opposed to the 7 dKh of NSW. I keep mine around 8.5 dKh, but that's only because I'm carbon dosing, and SPS can get burnt tips with alkalinity too far above NSW levels in these conditions. If I wasn't dosing carbon, I would probably try to keep the dKh around 10. There are added benefits to keeping alkalinity slightly higher than NSW other than coral growth (higher pH, some additional pH buffering capability especially in the presence of Co2 in the home, etc).

Many reefers appear to feel the same way with Ca, that a slightly elevated value is better than that of natural sea water. Personally I keep my Ca at 450ppm. Some people go up to 500ppm or higher, and while I don't think there's any problem with Ca at that level, I'd prefer to have it closer to 450. If for some reason my test kit is way off, I have some room for error.

When dosing, it's important to keep in mind stability. Many people recommend less than 1 dKh in change per day. It seems generally accepted that Ca can change up to 50ppm per day without issue, so you have a bit more room there. If you're using a quality salt mix, you shouldn't need to dose anything to your water changes to make sure you're not changing the water chemistry too much. Personally, I parameter match my water change water to my tank parameters, but I'm a bit eccentric and out there.. if you're not running crazy high alk/ca and you're using a quality salt mix, this really isn't necessary.
 

PCDS

Active Member
It's going to be tough to find a list of the "perfect" parameters, even for SPS. There's some consensus within the hobby on what range you should shoot for, but there are those who run levels outside that range that still report great success (and no, I was not referring to this type of "great success").

First and foremost, if your corals are not yet depleting Ca and carbonate AND your salt mix gives you good values (7ish dKh, 420ish ppm Ca), I wouldn't dose anything (except maybe Mg because most mixes are low on this). Stability is more important than actual numbers, and there's no sense in starting to dose unless you need to. Dosing is something that you can't really stop once you start. If your corals are depleting Ca/Alk, then obviously you'll need to dose... but dosing to hit a number is not worth it (IMO) if you can keep parameters stable with water changes.

Now, if you do need to dose. The general consensus is that SPS grow best with alkalinity above that of natural seawater. Many shoot for 10 dKh or higher, as opposed to the 7 dKh of NSW. I keep mine around 8.5 dKh, but that's only because I'm carbon dosing, and SPS can get burnt tips with alkalinity too far above NSW levels in these conditions. If I wasn't dosing carbon, I would probably try to keep the dKh around 10. There are added benefits to keeping alkalinity slightly higher than NSW other than coral growth (higher pH, some additional pH buffering capability especially in the presence of Co2 in the home, etc).

Many reefers appear to feel the same way with Ca, that a slightly elevated value is better than that of natural sea water. Personally I keep my Ca at 450ppm. Some people go up to 500ppm or higher, and while I don't think there's any problem with Ca at that level, I'd prefer to have it closer to 450. If for some reason my test kit is way off, I have some room for error.

When dosing, it's important to keep in mind stability. Many people recommend less than 1 dKh in change per day. It seems generally accepted that Ca can change up to 50ppm per day without issue, so you have a bit more room there. If you're using a quality salt mix, you shouldn't need to dose anything to your water changes to make sure you're not changing the water chemistry too much. Personally, I parameter match my water change water to my tank parameters, but I'm a bit eccentric and out there.. if you're not running crazy high alk/ca and you're using a quality salt mix, this really isn't necessary.
Thanks a lot. I just got a Mg test kit yesterday and for now I'm going to stick to frequent testing. The previous salt mix I used to use about a year ago gave me much higher Alk and Ca at 1.025 but the containers were very heavy (Kent marine reef salt mix). I now get 6.7 kg bags of reef octopus reef mix. Their values are closer to NSW.
If frequent dosing is required- or minimum weekly water changes, then the problem will be if I am away for more than a week. There is no one who I could ask ( who could cope) with looking after the tanks. Luckily I don't travel much these days.
I have ATO for both tanks and automated feeders. I am going to be saving up for an Apex controller for hopefully next year. I could monitor pH with this but obviously not everything.
Sorry I am rambling- just finished my coffee but it hasn't seeped in yet!
 

PCDS

Active Member
Today Ca 435; Mg 1425; Alk 2.7 Meq/l ( 7.6 dKH). The drop in Ca could be because I added some buffer yesterday? pH 8.0; specific gravity 1.022 ( a bit low compared to usual - normally runs 1.024 to 1.025)
 

MatroxD

Active Member
I pretty much keep(well, the reactor keeps) my dkh level as close to nsw as possible. I shoot for 7.5. I run pellets(solid carbon dosing), so mine in this tank has never between above 9.0.. It works extremely well so far for me..

I agree with the other poster that if you don't have to dose yet, don't... And especially, don't use buffer.. That stuff throws the triangle off(the calcium, alk, and magnesium). When you are ready to dose, use a good 2(3) part solution with a dosing pump(s), to spread your doses out, throughout the day..

As the other use stated, stability with sps is critical.. Ph,I only pay attention to it in the reactor to be honest.. Alkalinity is what I test for the most(about once a week now), then calcium every maybe two weeks, and magnesium, I hardly check that(maybe once a monthif that), as the system doesn't utilize it a ton as long as things are in balance, and it's more of a binder.

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Oxylebius

Well-Known Member
Yesterday morning my Alk was 2.5 Meq/l ( 7 dKH) and like an idiot I added buffer too quickly correcting up to 3.5 Meq/l ( 9.8 dKH) ( there was also a 20l water change. )

7dKH is with in range, you don't have to mess with it.

At this point you don't need to dose with just one sps in the tank. Weekly water changes will cover you.

But, this is a great time to start testing your tank and begin to really understand the chemistry going on in there. Better to take time to understand the chemistry now before something goes wrong and having to deal with fixing your tank while you are stress and struggling to get things back in order.

I just stumbled upon this 6-part series on reef water chemistry. It is pretty straight forward if you would like to read up on it more: http://www.liveaquaria.com/PIC/article.cfm?aid=95

This article has a table that represents a range of Alk, Ca and other parameters to keep you tank at: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

When it comes to dosing, I find that it is easiest to match the levels of Ca, Alk, Mg (and any other chemicals) to the levels that your salt brand has (test your freshly made salt water, don't just go by the label, but verify the numbers by testing the mixed water). That way when you are doing water changes there isn't a fluctuation in levels. Instead the tank maintains a fairly steady state. And allowing for a little fluctuation is fine, then numbers don't have to match up exactly each time you test for them. If they are way off, then that is something to pay attn to.
 

Choff

Well-Known Member
Stability of parameters is primary key to long term success in this hobby. I have long stopped trying to chase numbers. I mostly use my eyes these days and only test when things just don't look right. Im not suggesting you do the same, but if you need to move the needle on a parameter, any parameter, do it ever so slowly. Alk swings in particular can be the most hazardous to SPS.
 

PCDS

Active Member
I've noticed that my Ca stays stable with the water changes but my Alk tends to fall. I have 7 SPS corals and several LPS corals in the tank.
Should I consider adding kalkwasser to my topup water container?
 

PSU4ME

JoePa lives on!!!
Staff member
PREMIUM
I've noticed that my Ca stays stable with the water changes but my Alk tends to fall. I have 7 SPS corals and several LPS corals in the tank.
Should I consider adding kalkwasser to my topup water container?
Mine used to do that as well even with kalk in my ato. But all in the top off is the next logical step if water changes don't suffice. I like brightwells kalk +2 on my sps tank. I set the high a low float switches close so that it topped off frequently so that it didn't add a lot of "steroid water" at one time.
 

PCDS

Active Member
The drop is about 0.6 - 0.8 (dKH) in a week going from 7.6 down to just below 7. If I gradually increased the ALk to about 9 artificially, would the levels then fluctuate between 9 and about 8.4 with my weekly water changes, or would it just drop right down as soon as I stop supplementing Alk?
Still drinking my coffee so not sure if this makes sense. :java:
My SPS coral polyps are all open but the vibrant colours they are supposed to be haven't returned. ( browned) My nitrates have dropped with the water changes ( I have ordered a better test kit to measure lower levels), but I am wondering if they would prefer a higher alkalinity.
On that note, what could I use to raise Alk safely? My current alk test kit (Red Sea) came with a bottle of reef foundation B buffer supplement. Is this okay if I watch the Ca and Mg?
I don't like the reef foundation A. It says it has Ca and Strontium. I know that strontium can be bound instead of Ca but why add it? Why not just have calcium and maybe a trace of Mg? It doesn't make sense to me - or more coffee is needed! :morning:
( people do use it for osteoporosis treatment- well until recently anyway)

With The Kalkwasser, how much of a sediment problem do you get? How often do you need to replace the pump in the topup? I just watched a YouTube video about using kalkwasser and I was wondering if any of you using Kalkwasser had any major problems?
I don't want to keep up with more than weekly water changes long term once my nitrates are where I want them. When time allows I am doing twice weekly changes for the coral tank and weekly to alt week changes for the big tank. I am going through my salt mixes very quickly with the two tanks. I am considering my options. Obviously if the frequent changes is the best option then I'll do it but I'm worrying about when I might be away.
( up to 2 weeks max - but not very often).
 

PCDS

Active Member
This should be purple/pink
image.jpeg
This should be blue including the polyps.
image.jpeg
The rest are similarly more brown than the colours they should be.
The SPS corals are at the top level just a few inches below my light. Kessil 150 LED.
 

MatroxD

Active Member
The drop is about 0.6 - 0.8 (dKH) in a week going from 7.6 down to just below 7. If I gradually increased the ALk to about 9 artificially, would the levels then fluctuate between 9 and about 8.4 with my weekly water changes, or would it just drop right down as soon as I stop supplementing Alk?
Still drinking my coffee so not sure if this makes sense. :java:
My SPS coral polyps are all open but the vibrant colours they are supposed to be haven't returned. ( browned) My nitrates have dropped with the water changes ( I have ordered a better test kit to measure lower levels), but I am wondering if they would prefer a higher alkalinity.
On that note, what could I use to raise Alk safely? My current alk test kit (Red Sea) came with a bottle of reef foundation B buffer supplement. Is this okay if I watch the Ca and Mg?
I don't like the reef foundation A. It says it has Ca and Strontium. I know that strontium can be bound instead of Ca but why add it? Why not just have calcium and maybe a trace of Mg? It doesn't make sense to me - or more coffee is needed! :morning:
( people do use it for osteoporosis treatment- well until recently anyway)

With The Kalkwasser, how much of a sediment problem do you get? How often do you need to replace the pump in the topup? I just watched a YouTube video about using kalkwasser and I was wondering if any of you using Kalkwasser had any major problems?
I don't want to keep up with more than weekly water changes long term once my nitrates are where I want them. When time allows I am doing twice weekly changes for the coral tank and weekly to alt week changes for the big tank. I am going through my salt mixes very quickly with the two tanks. I am considering my options. Obviously if the frequent changes is the best option then I'll do it but I'm worrying about when I might be away.
( up to 2 weeks max - but not very often).
That's a pretty slight drop per week.. As long as you have a reliable pump(not an aqua lifter), they last a pretty long time with the kalk in the ato container.. But ultimately a stirrer eliminated that worry.. And your idea of two float switches to keep the additions power one time, is a very good one..

And you can use Mrs wages pickling lime(it actually, was my choice short of the brs kalk)..

But you can vary your dose of the kalk in your ato container, or, if you have a controller, set it, so either your pump goes on however long(i set mine up for 10 seconds every 10 minutes) sho that it pretty much takes care of the ato consumption per day, but with kalk water..

The container varying amount stirred in, is the simplest method by far and you don't need a ton added at all.. But, beware, kalk does use and utilize magnesium more than any other measure. So keep an eye out for that level..

But you can start with very little(like a teaspoon per gallon of ato water), in your ato container, then wait a day, measure your alk, see where it's at, then go from there.. You will, in very short order, get a feel for how much you need to keep it exactly where you want.. Then, your only limit to how long you really can go without interaction, is the size of your ato container..

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MatroxD

Active Member
This should be purple/pink
View attachment 45813
This should be blue including the polyps.
View attachment 45814
The rest are similarly more brown than the colours they should be.
The SPS corals are at the top level just a few inches below my light. Kessil 150 LED.
Give it some time.. Once you get your nitrate and phosphate down, it takes some time to get the color back. And, it depends on species, how long and whether it will come back on older growth..

But it can take a while(as some things weeks, some things months to be honest). As some one told me about this, and I'm bad myself, "getting them out of whack can happen overnight, but correcting that fully, can take a very long time"..

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PCDS

Active Member
Give it some time.. Once you get your nitrate and phosphate down, it takes some time to get the color back. And, it depends on species, how long and whether it will come back on older growth..

But it can take a while(as some things weeks, some things months to be honest). As some one told me about this, and I'm bad myself, "getting them out of whack can happen overnight, but correcting that fully, can take a very long time"..

Sent from my SM-N920F using Tapatalk
Thanks. That was my intention but I noticed some slight bleaching at the tip of one of the branches that was not there before. (Not visible on this picture. )I was reading another post where some one had some bleaching of an acropora and they were advised to slowly increase the ALK. They were told that a dKh if 7 was probably too low for their SPS corals. The coral has been in the tank for about 3 weeks ( seems longer) and had a slow light acclimatisation. I did my last water change on the 27th and the next one just needs warming up and it's ready to go. This should hopefully bring the nitrates below 10. ( approx 25% water change).
 

MatroxD

Active Member
Thanks. That was my intention but I noticed some slight bleaching at the tip of one of the branches that was not there before. (Not visible on this picture. )I was reading another post where some one had some bleaching of an acropora and they were advised to slowly increase the ALK. They were told that a dKh if 7 was probably too low for their SPS corals. The coral has been in the tank for about 3 weeks ( seems longer) and had a slow light acclimatisation. I did my last water change on the 27th and the next one just needs warming up and it's ready to go. This should hopefully bring the nitrates below 10. ( approx 25% water change).
Mmm, not sure why they were advised 7dkh would be too low. I keep and have kept mine there for the longest.. Even before this tank, my last two systems I never went above 8, and all I pretty much keep is sps..

If it's a new piece, anything can happen honestly.. Most of the time you will have success. And some, unfortunately will not make it. But sometimes, they will go dark for a while when you put them in your system.. I have had that happen a few times. And then, all of a sudden, they start gaining color again.. Given, what always happens is they need to encrust good, then their color comes back and begin growing vertically(or tabling if it's that type).. But it can be hard to judge with new additions..

I pretty much go off things that have been in the system for a (only things that have actually grown out in my system), and let the new stiff do what it is going to do.. Yes, I observe the new, but never base anything off them..

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PCDS

Active Member
Mmm, not sure why they were advised 7dkh would be too low. I keep and have kept mine there for the longest.. Even before this tank, my last two systems I never went above 8, and all I pretty much keep is sps..

If it's a new piece, anything can happen honestly.. Most of the time you will have success. And some, unfortunately will not make it. But sometimes, they will go dark for a while when you put them in your system.. I have had that happen a few times. And then, all of a sudden, they start gaining color again.. Given, what always happens is they need to encrust good, then their color comes back and begin growing vertically(or tabling if it's that type).. But it can be hard to judge with new additions..

I pretty much go off things that have been in the system for a (only things that have actually grown out in my system), and let the new stiff do what it is going to do.. Yes, I observe the new, but never base anything off them..

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Thanks. You make a good point. 3 weeks is still early days. Problem is everything in the tank is new! o_O
My zoas, my Duncan and my blasto look okay. My torch looks alright but I wonder if more expansion could be possible ( the torch in my large tank extends more)
I rescued some corals from my large tank which were being picked on by my fish and they seem to be recovering. My encrusting montipora is covered in open polyps. It's the acropora and my birds nest coral that don't seem to be happy.
I wonder if the bleaching could be a delayed response to a rapid change in Alk ( because of my stupidity) that occurred 2 weeks ago? - see my first post on this thread.
I think I will do my water change and then watch the parameters over the next few days. The Ca and Alk readings in my big tank are always high and I use the same salt mix so the lowish ( NSW) readings I have had ( even before adding the corals) maybe partly due to this being a new tank - (5 -6 months.)
I was too hasty spending a lot of money on too many corals. I should have done this more gradually. Aaah well, we'll see what happens. Thanks for your advice. :clink:
 
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