Ich Outbreak

[Web2000]

Oh no I got Ich in my tank!! After doing massive work on the rocks in my tank about two weeks ago I started to see some ich on my three tangs, as well as a few other fish. I had a massive hair algae attack and we thought it best to get the rocks out and clean them individulally outside of the tank. So I immediately went out and bought a pair of Cleaner Shrimp and started soaking their food in garlic. I also have a UV Sterilizer. After 5 or 6 days I started to see a marked improvement. Well last night it came back and took the life of my Mustard Tang. Now I've noticed more of my fish are now coming down with it and I'm afraid of losing everything. I have corals, and inverts also. I know I won't lose them to ich, but of course they make it harder to treat a disease. There is absolutely no way of catching any of the fish to try to treat them in a seperate tank. So any ideas of what I should do??

Bill

 

[Woodstock]

Ich has a 5-7 day life cycle. Just when you think it's gone 100 x more hatch!!

I've had my share of ICH this past year which was originally introduced via a cleaner package I added (100+ snails).

Kick-Ich didn't work for me. I've done Hyposalanity in a quarantine tank it works but is a PITA if you have a lot of fishes. But my preferred method is Greenex. I'll probably get flamed for that. Yep, Greenex. I was VERY reluctant to use it but I did NOT want to catch all my fish and do another hypo treatment. ALL my corals, macro algae, snails, sea serpent, fish, did just fine (blue,red,hairy shrooms, yellow toadstool, galaxea, green gonipora, and xenia). My pod population was reduced but not devistated. The hardest hit coral was my xenia. I thought I was going to loose it when it melted down to a stub but it has since recovered very well.

I would certainly use it again if necessary. I also now dip all new arrivals with it too.

 

[wooddood]

sorry to hear that web,never had that problem[knock on wood]so cant help ya sorry.thanks for the info woodstock. dave.

 

[blythe]

Ick is tough to deal with in a reef. Best of luck. MAybe others have more experience with treating it in a reef than I do.

 

[Alice]

The portion of the life cycle that Crytptocaryon irritans spends feeding on your fish host is only 5-7 days but it's life cycle can actually run up to an additional 29 days. Once the ich parasite leaves your fish it has a short free-swimming period of less than a day (this is where a UV can be effective, they are slow movers and can easily be zapped by a UV that is set correctly) and then it attaches to any hard surface (rock, glass, acrylic, snail/crab shells) and forms a sticky almost impenetrable cyst around itself where, from that single parasite, it can divide into as many as 200 new hungry ones! Once it hatches, if it doesn't find a fish host within a few hours it will die (again, at this stage, UV's can be effective.) If there are no fish host in the aquarium, the parasites will die. However, in order to make sure you've outlasted the life cycle, you'll need to leave the tank fish-free for 4-5 weeks.

Beating ich is all about understanding the life cycle and effective treatment. FW dips can be partially effective when ich is attached as a host but often parasites that are too deeply embedded won't be killed by this method and if the fish is heavily infested too many parasites may release at once which may cause the already weakened fish to bleed to death. Treating with copper in a QT is also hit and miss...copper will only be effective against the free swimming and host part of the life cycle. And again, if the parasites are too deeply embedded or if the fish has a heavy slime coat, the treatment may not be effective. Personally I prefer formalin dips to copper...it's just so hard to test for and maintain theraputic levels of copper in the water. Hyposalinity treatment in a QT is also very effective and there are no cumulative effects to the fish. However, it is very important to research the proper way to use hyposalinty. Do a search for ich and hyposalinity and you'll see TerryB's name come up, he knows this method of treatment better than anyone.

As far as I know, the only thing that will effectively kill the parasites in the cyst stage is a combination of formalin and Malachite green. I'll dig through my notes later and give you the exact specifics, I can't remember those off the top of my head. I also don't remember if hyposalinity will kill off the cysts or not. Time for me to do some homework

There is also antecdotal evidence that feeding the fish garlic does help prevent ich or lessen the outbreaks. However, the timing of the feedings is crucial to keep the parasites from reattaching to the fish. Do a search on Horge and garlic; he has an excellent article on the subject. I know it's posted on The Reef Tank.com archives if you're having trouble finding it.

At any rate, sorry for the long-winded post, but I hope this helps.

Alice

 

[Alice]

Oh, I guess I should mention that if you are using a UV make sure that the flow rate is set to the manufacturer's recommendation to kill parasites. Most of the flow rate figures that are recommended are to kill algae. Once you make sure you have the correct rate for parasites, double-check it by using a stopwatch to time the flow into a gallon jug.

 

[Craig Manoukian]

Alive hit the nail on the head! Good luck Web2000!

:smirk:

 

[Craig Manoukian]

Here's a link to detailed hyposalinity instrutions

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinity.html

:smirk:

 

[Craig Manoukian]

Here's detailed information on Oodinium and Cryptocaryon detection, prevetion, and treatment:

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/fishdiseases/a/aa102797.htm

:smirk:

 

[Craig Manoukian]

Here's a link to the article on garlic:

http://www.reefs.org/library/article/h_cortes-jorge.html

:smirk:

 

[cheeks69]

Originally posted by Alice
The portion of the life cycle that Crytptocaryon irritans spends feeding on your fish host is only 5-7 days but it's life cycle can actually run up to an additional 29 days. Alice

Before my tank matured I went thru a serious Ick outbreak, everything I would put in there would get ick I tried formulin and frshwater dips copper and the fish all eventually died it was very frustrating then Jeremy at Coral Reef Aquarium told me to stop the insanity and let my tank be fish free for 5 weeks and that's what I did and it worked. Once ick has been introduced wether your fish are stressed or not they may become infected and you could have a vicious cycle going. Here's a good read :
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2003/mini1.htm

Here's a quote from the article:Myth and misconception
It is a common misconception among hobbyists that fish must be in a weakened state before they are susceptible to infection with Cryptocaryon irritans. Stress is a factor as it does reduce immune function in fish. This makes it less likely that fish will develop some level of acquired immunity after becoming infected. However, stress (or weakened condition) is not a prerequisite to infection with Cryptocaryon irritans. Healthy fish that are not unduly stressed are susceptible to infection upon exposure to this pathogen.
another quote :Cryptocaryon irritans is an obligate parasite, meaning that it cannot complete its life cycle (at the trophont stage) without a host fish. Taking into account that the normal time frame in which tomonts will hatch ranges from 3 to 28 days, a fallow (without fish) period of 30 days to 6 weeks is recommended to eliminate this parasite from an aquarium. Removing all potential hosts from a system for this period of time should eradicate the pest from the aquarium. If the fish are removed from the display to another aquarium for treatment and an effective means of therapy (i.e. hyposalinity or copper treatments) is employed, then those fish will be clean of infection.

 

[Woodstock]

Here are a few more great links:

Part I: Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.htm

Part II: Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.htm


My last successful method was #7 discussed in part II.

 

[Craig Manoukian]

Great links guys!

Web2000, get yourself a comfortable spot and read-up! Good luck!

:smirk:

 

[RanRoc]

Ditto to Alice's post.
-RY

 

[Alice]

Wow! Good job on providing links you guys!

I just wanted to follow up on the malachite green thing...I knew I had notes on that somewhere. Here's an excerpt from an email with my favorite marine biologist:

>snip>
Copper has not effect on either of the cysted stages because the metal molecules are too large to slip in and copper actually will bind to the Ca/proteins used to form the cyst. Once the outside is saturated, no more copper can bind to it and it will actually (in a weird way) protect the cyst from more copper exposure.

Formalin aromatizes too quick and also can't get past the proteins used in making the cyst. Has to do with low doses of formalin and nitrogenous compounds.

M. green has a extra molecule that it can give up to the Ca. This fairly rapidly weakens the shell of the cyst, allowing formalin to get in but not copper (again the copper molecules are too big).

Copper will only effect the free swimming/floating stages when it's not encysted. Formalin/M. green can hit it at all stages.
Problem is there is no test for formalin and the ones for M. green are not applicable for salt water. You have to observe the fish very close. Plus some of the cardinals, basslets, baby fish in general are very sensitive to M. green and you have to know which ones.
>snip>

Alice

 

[Alice]

>snip>
Copper has not effect on either of the cysted stages because the metal molecules are too large to slip in and copper actually will bind to the Ca/proteins used to form the cyst......

The above post was his response to my question about what was the most effective medication for ich. He uses a combination of formalin and malachite green in a QT. I need to dig more in my notes and see if I can find the percentages/doses for the two meds.

Web2000, how are your fish faring? If you really can't get them out of the tank, your best shot at helping them avoid/fight off ich is keeping your water pristine, using that UV correctly, feeding the fish a healthy diet and soaking their food in selcon/selco and garlic.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Alice