Can ich exsist in an established tank even if it's not seen?

[Rhodes19]

Sorry for the strange question. I guess a better questions would be "how can I tell if a mature tank has ich or not"? I just got a 125 FOWLR from someone the day before their house was foreclosed on (sad story) and I want make sure there is no ich. I've QTed fish before for 6+ weeks before I put them in my 180 reef so I know they don't have ich, but with this mature tank I just got, I don't know if the same 6+ weeks in the DT without an outbreak applies. Any info or suggestions are greatly appreciated. I would like to add more fish to the 125 at some point, but I will only do that when I know there is no chance of them getting ich from the 125 (even after they have been QTed).

When we moved the tank, we dumped the sand and kept the LR. It looked like the fish had not been feed in a while. The maroon clown (4-5") looked to be the healthiest and the belly looks ok. The 3 convict damsels looked a little thin. The yellow and blue tang had pinched bellies with the yellow tang having faded coloring around its face and dorsal fin. And the yellow tail damsel (smallest of the fish) was the worst off. You can see his spine and ribs protruding. I've been watching them closely for the past 4 days and haven't noticed anything else. They do seem to be plumping up a little. They are swimming around ok, pigging out on mush, mysis, algae, and flake (didn't like the mysis with the prazipro though), and their breathing seems to be ok.

I guess that's it. Any advice or info is appreciated. Thanks.

Chris

 

[Robzilla]

Chris, I hate to be the one to say this, but yes. Especially now that there is sand and rock in there. Let it sit man....it will be well worth a few weeks of waiting and save you MANY MANY MANY weeks of grief. We all have to do it If you have a UV filter then now is the best time to run it.

 

[Rhodes19]

Thanks Rob. I don't have a uv so I guess I'll just let the tank and its inhabitants sit for 6 weeks and see what happens.

 

[sasquatch]

sitting a fish in qt for 6 weeks only proves the fish isn't in the middle of a disease or outbreak that you can observe, at the end of any treatment for ich you must apply a stress test, usually a fast temperature dip.
After a year + with NO new additions, ich should have died out completely, new rock,corals etc, anything wet can import ich all over again so if additions were made don't bet the bank on it

 

[lcstorc]

The tank has to be fishless for 8 weeks before you can be certain the parasite is not there.

 

[Rhodes19]

sitting a fish in qt for 6 weeks only proves the fish isn't in the middle of a disease or outbreak that you can observe, at the end of any treatment for ich you must apply a stress test, usually a fast temperature dip.
After a year + with NO new additions, ich should have died out completely, new rock,corals etc, anything wet can import ich all over again so if additions were made don't bet the bank on it

Hi sasquatch,

Thanks for the info. Never heard about a fast temperature dip. How do you do that and what temps are we looking at?

 

[Rhodes19]

The tank has to be fishless for 8 weeks before you can be certain the parasite is not there.

Hi Lynn,

Thanks. Yeah, I know the tank would need to lay fallow for a while to make sure there is no ich in it but what about the fish? If I QT them all in separate tanks for 8 weeks and ich never shows up, does that mean they don't have ich or does it mean they do but its not presenting? What would be the difference between the fish being in the 125 for 8 weeks and not showing ich verses being in QT for 8 weeks and not showing ich? With them being malnourished/starved and being moved, I would think that would be enough of a stresser to cause the ich to come out. Thanks.

 

[sasquatch]

had to think for a minute there lol, I would raise temp to 78 or 80 for a couple of days, them mix some new salt water while waiting and heat to 68 or 70, 10 degree drop is about right, put fish in for 5 minutes then start slowly bringing temp up with tank water (acclimating back to temp) and performing small water change at same time so not wasting water, wait a week and see what shows up.
FINE PRINT sasquatch holds no degrees and offers no guarantees, if it goes wrong "I didn't do it" applies, so... kid? yer on yer own lol :dummy:

 

[Frankie]

So were talking rare here not well done?

 

[sasquatch]

So were talking rare here not well done?

sushi... not canned tuna lol

 

[Rhodes19]

had to think for a minute there lol, I would raise temp to 78 or 80 for a couple of days, them mix some new salt water while waiting and heat to 68 or 70, 10 degree drop is about right, put fish in for 5 minutes then start slowly bringing temp up with tank water (acclimating back to temp) and performing small water change at same time so not wasting water, wait a week and see what shows up.
FINE PRINT sasquatch holds no degrees and offers no guarantees, if it goes wrong "I didn't do it" applies, so... kid? yer on yer own lol :dummy:

Thanks sasquatch.

 

[Rhodes19]

So were talking rare here not well done?

I'm thinking sushi myself.

 

[sasquatch]

anytime at all!

 

[sasquatch]

ok, Im thinking that what I do is maybe not what you should do? just to be safe why don't you run this by Lee? maybe he has some input or even a better stress test, paranoia has its uses lol

 

[Rhodes19]

ok, Im thinking that what I do is maybe not what you should do? just to be safe why don't you run this by Lee? maybe he has some input or even a better stress test, paranoia has its uses lol

I was going to send Lee a pm but I saw one of his sticky's stating not to send him pms because he gets so many of them and can't keep up with them. I've read his posts on ich and I think I understand most of it but I think they all apply to the fish that has ich and what to do and how to qt a new fish before going into a clean tank. I haven't come across any posts about what to do with an unknown established tank to make sure it's ich free. If I can keep the fish in the 125 and observe for ich for 8 weeks and not see any ich then I can start qting new fish before I move them into the 125. If that is a non starter and I need to pull the fish from the 125, put them in their own qt for 8 weeks and observe while the tank lays fallow, that's fine too (just a little harder and more work). I recall reading a post that said if a fish does not develop ich within 6+ weeks of being in a QT, then the fish does not have ich. I'm just wondering if the same thing applies to an established DT. Yeah, I guess I'm paranoid!! LOL

 

[sasquatch]

fish can carry ich for some time and not have a noticeable flair up, thats why the stress test is good

 

[BigAl07]

I could be wrong but part of the reason for a "QT" set-up is because the QT will usually be a stressor on the fish and might help to show the infection. I just always thought (aka assumed) that the small QT was indeed in some degree a stressor to the fish.

 

[sasquatch]

I could be wrong but part of the reason for a "QT" set-up is because the QT will usually be a stressor on the fish and might help to show the infection. I just always thought (aka assumed) that the small QT was indeed in some degree a stressor to the fish.

agreed! but if the fish was good at the lfs and it wasn't upset by being in the qt? its the only physical stressor I know of that's controllable, and after hypo or copper treatment how do you really know it worked? Sometimes I think qt's are the same as test results.... my readings are perfect but why do I have a huge algae problem?

 

[Rhodes19]

Well, these guys have definitely been stressed. I'll keep a close eye on them and if I don't see any signs of ich then I'll assume there is none. If I do see signs of ich, then I ques I will be setting up a hospital tank for all of them and let the 125 sit fallow for 8 weeks.

 

[sasquatch]

its only ich after all not like herpes or something lol