vodka dosing question

[twoclowns]

anyone vodka dose with a bio-denitrator?? I'm going to give it a try on my reef extremely slow(1/4 to 1/2 starting dose) and see how it works out just curious how it interacts with a bio-denitrator. I have done my research on vodka dosing 8 hours of reading, but there isnt much on this interaction. Any advise would be great thank you.

 

[twoclowns]

I guess I'll record all my results in a log when I start next week.

 

[cheeks69]

I'm just wondering why you would need to dose the vodka in addition to using a denitrator ? Is your nitrate levels out of control ? I would suspect there would be a dramatic increase of aerobic bacteria with the vodka and that would probably effect the levels of anaerobic bacteria your trying to grow in your denitrator.

 

[twoclowns]

They dont test high but I have a bad algae Neomeris annulata, (plus I run a refugium with cheto) I have had it for atleast 8 years and I get tired of harvesting the crap off my rocks, it sucks down magnesium and chokes out my sps and brains. Also nothing eats the stuff, while it looks cool its not worth the trouble keeping it. My calcium reactor fuels its growth I think (P). Also I can scrape my glass and in 1-2 days its got a decent amount of growth on it. The bio-denitrator I have is way undersized it was my calcium reactor (Korallin) converted it over when I upgraded to a much larger model Korallin Reactor. I think if I dose small levels I can help pull N and P from my water reducing the algae which I think would improve my overall tank health and help bring back some of the colors in several of my montiporas that have lost some color and a few acros that have too. (pokerstar, superman) and (Purple acro and ora hawkins echinata) I'm going to dose really small amounts to start and very very slowly raise up the amount and just see if I get the desired results over many months. Im not looking for instant results.

 

[sasquatch]

I have crap loads of Neomeris and N and P don't seem to matter, some people actually want to grow them (go figure) as to additional dosing of vodka hmmmm, the theory on multiple carbon sources is varied bacterial strains, vodka sugar vinegar dosing is complicated, can't be miss dosed or forgotten so in the long haul I would think the pellets are a lot less risk and hassel

 

[twoclowns]

sas you find the only way to control them is manual removal? And I hear the same thing everyone wants them, but once you got them growing you realize they are a pain in the butt.

I think I'll give it a try I have a quality dosing pump that will be controlled through my neptune controller, so Im not too worried about missed doses it will be feeding off a handle of vodka, and I'll always have a spare bottle on hand to add once it gets half empty. Plus Im going to start with extremely slow amounts to see how my tank reacts to it.

 

[PSU4ME]

Your local package store clerk is going to think you have a drinking problem!

 

[sasquatch]

drinkin problem? no problem drinkin it at all lol, manual removal is not funl! almost like they grow faster, seems they are "supposed" to only last a short time hahaha at least aiptasia is an anemone and has some character these dumb sticks are a blight. Now meanwhile back to the carbon dosing, as your hopefully aware a true reading of 0 phos and nitrate is very very bad and will result in losses, do you have the phos meter?

 

[twoclowns]

yeah I read all the caterpiller weed stuff everything says you cant keep them not here it grows like crazy only in the last year has it started to grow less on my rock work. I was the guy who wrote snail mail and asked about it a few years back.

I have a test kit but not a meter for P. I was thinking about only dosing on a lower baseline level to help reduce N and P not completely drop it, for example when algae starts to reduce cut back 1/2 of what Im dosing and observe and test, my thinking is also the bacteria might be good for the corals to eat I have a large squamosa clam and many gorgonians that could benefit from the bacteria food source, along with my sps corals possible. More like using the dosing as an aid with lowering and controlling then as a complete remedy to dropping it near zero.

 

[sasquatch]

so... if I give you chemo drugs " just in case" you'll be ok with that? lol, if your gonna dabble get the meter, if your trying to kill your clam your on the right track, this is really risky, read up on vodka and clams please before you get started, cheers

 

[twoclowns]

I understand what your saying. I searched vodka dosing and clams and cant find much info on problems except when people havent followed instruction and dose too much too fast, Could you please provide me a link to the article you were talking about, I would like to read some more about possible issues. Thank you

 

[sasquatch]

I think the issue is quite simple, you have no reliable way of testing, its not natural, tank levels fluctuate, demands change and clams look good usually until they die, no direct links for you as were years away from direct evidence but really? isn't this just another diet pill thing? water changes will always be best, this hobby has a lot of outlandish things done that become very acceptable and worth perusing, vodka dosing has been around for a while with mixed success (thats why pellets are winning) by all means do what you will, if your aware of the risk at least your knowledgeable enough to operate with caution.

 

[twoclowns]

thanks sash you brought up great points and a good discussion, its always welcomed I looked into the pellets also, Im just not big on them, I guess I like the idea of controlling exactly how much is put into the tank. Where the pellets are placed in a media reactor and used up with no control. I also think this will allow me to feed my tank more heavily improving the fish and corals overall health. I'll keep a log of everything and at the slightest sign of stress will discontinue use and preform a 45-55g water change. Also By dosing Im not looking to reduce water changes just reduce some of the algae that grows on my glass and in my tank. I think I might try a modified version of dosing only run a baseline dose long term instead of the increasing dose method, I'm not looking at running zero N and P just trying to out compete the algae and possible rid my tank of caterpiller weed or at the least reduce its numbers.

 

[sasquatch]

awesome! Keith, the thing about bio pellets that I think are superior is they work on demand, as n+p are available the bacteria consumes them, the short coming of pellets I think is the volume of turnover they can process as they need a slow tumble hence requiring bigger or multiple reactors, now a few years back there was a guy dosing vodka in a different way, he used filter socks filled with filter floss, the bacteria grew in the sock and avoided some of the tank goop some experiance, it would be nice to find a coalmine canary for this lol The Neomeris I think is closer to Halameda in its way than anything and thats calcium dependent, don't know what to do for that

 

[runmeshawltd]

Ive done the vodka dosing for over 3 months now and let me tell you it has worked wonders for me. My tank has been established for over 2 years and i've battled algae for most of the time. After having the tank for a year i bought a phosban reactor and bio-nitrate reactor to try to lower my levels to see if i could get rid of the algae. The algae didn't grow as fast but i still had to clean my rocks once a week or it would suffocate my corals. My phosphate levels were at .25 and nitrate at 20ppm after adding the reactors. Before they were almost double that. I have a lot of fish in my 150 gallon so i decided the bioload was too much for the system to handle. I have a 50 gallon refugium with chaeto and live rock. I thought once i got the reactors i could get everything under control, i was wrong. It helped but not to the extent i thought it would.

In my 150g tank i kept alot of LPS and a few SPS corals, most of the SPS corals didn't have color like other tanks i have seen. The LPS corals thrived and grew very well over the time i have had them but the colors weren't as vivrant as i wanted them to be. I have plenty of lighting in my tank around 1200 watts of MH and PC, so i know lighting wasn't the issue.

After reading an article on one of the forums i decided to give vodka dosing a try, man i was willing to try anything at this point. I followed the dosing schedule that the article instructed and at the second week my skimmer started to skim out some dark skimmate. I increased the dosage every week until i saw a drop in the nitrate levels. After 2 months my nitrates and phosphates were undectable. My water looks crystal clear and the color of my corals are super nice. Man i thought i would never get to this point. The SPS corals that were brown started to turn purple like they are suppose to look like. I followed the vodka dosing regiment to a tee making sure i took it slowly and didn't overwhelm my tank. I have seen no ill effects of the vodka dosing and have gone back to feeding my fish once a day instead of every other day.

I don't have any algae growing in my tank anymore, its crazy not to have to do weekly rock cleaning, i'm not use to that. I did buy some more clean up crews but i attribute the algae subsiding due to the vodka dosing which lowered my nitrates and phosphates. In the last month i've added 10 SPS frags, finally confident that i can grow these corals without them dying or losing their coloration. So far so good the SPS have been growing and the colors are awesome. I would recommend the vodka dosing to any one that has dealt with algae and tried all natural methods to try to eradicate it with no luck. Good luck on the vodka dosing!!

Oh yea i forgot to add that i have a derasa and maxima clam and they haven't been effected in any way to the vodka dosing.

 

[Frankie]

Welcome to RS

Always happy to read success stories! Most of these carbon dosing ideas have a place in the hobby when applied appropriately. Looks as if you had great success.

 

[runmeshawltd]

Thanks for the warm welcome!! I like this place already, usually i just read through the threads for information but this time decided to register and be part of the reefing community.

I was leary on the carbon dosing idea in the beginning but thought what the heck, im pretty familiar with my corals behavior so if anything was out of the ordinary i would stop the dosing and do a big water change. I must admit that dosing has been the single best thing i have done for my tank so far and it has been the cheapest. I wouldn't recommend anyone to just jump into vodka dosing if they haven't tried other natural methods to lower their nutrients.

Happy Reefing!!

 

[twoclowns]

thanks for the great response rum, I think im going to start dosing in about 2 weeks just really busy right now. and on a side note I got tired of light bulb replacement costs and electric bills in the 300's so I dropped a huge amount of $$$ and bought 5 aqua illumination blue led units and hope they get shipped out in the next few weeks.These lights look great and use next nothing for power 75ws per unit, compared to my dual 400w halides and 4 4ft t-5's and 175w halide and 2 4ft t-5's on my frag tank so should be a quick pay back in electricity and bulbs less then 2 years. I'll start a new thread with pics and feedback on these lights when I get them up and running.

 

[BigAl07]

runmeshawltd Welcome and great reply! It sounds like this was the right "method" for you and your tank!! Cant' wait to see some pictures of your tanks.

twoclowns it sounds like you have some GOODIES on the way to make the rest of us VERY jealous! We'll have to keep looking for that thread about your new goodies! CONGRATS!

 

[runmeshawltd]

BigAl07: thanks for the welcome!! When i get a better camera i will post some pics of my tank. Sick of using my phone as a camera doesn't do my tanks any justice.

twoclowns: Let me know how the vodka dosing works for you. Also keep us updated on your new lights. I would consider changing to LEDS, your right the electricity bill for MH lighting is off the charts. And the heat it generates is crazy especially during the summer time. I broke down last summer and bought a chiller which added more to the electricity bill.