Stubborn algae may be green cyano? any advice would be appreciated

[Val]

I've been fighting this algae for a little over a month. It stays mostly on the sand. I've cut my feeding back to every three days and feed lightly, reduce the light schedule to 6 hrs a day and have been sucking it off the sand. I've been playing with the powerheads trying to get good flow over the sand without digging ditches in the sand. It seems like I either have to dig ditches or this stuff persists. It's dark, very dark in color looking like dark green to black and it gets stringy in flow. I'll add a pic below to show how it strings. It seems more clumpy/thick in lower flow areas. It sucks up in large patches or clumps.

My system is 180g dt, 75gal sump w/chaeto and 16g fuge deep sand bed loaded with macro algaes and pods. I have two vortech 40's and a korelia evo 4 powerhead in the display. Two mag 7 return pumps for flow. Reef octopus protein skimmer. A little over 200lbs live rock and approx 2-3 inches sand. I do a 20 gal water change weekly using IO Reef crystals.

Test results aren't showing much, but I know the algae could be why nothing is registering. Test results are staying stable also.

Temp 78
SG 35 refractometer
PH 8.2
KH 8
Calcium- API Test 420
Calcium- Tropic Marin 424
Mag- Tropic Marin 1440
Ammonia 0.00 not reading any with API
Nitrite 0.00 with API
Nitrate 0.00 with API
Phosphate 0.00 unreadable with API

I'm considering adding a phosban reactor but wanted to get others opinions before I do anything. Thanks in advance for advice.

 

[cbrownfish]

When discussing Cyanobacteria, organic matter is largely to blame in the case of Cyano. I have run GFO/Purigen/media until my SPS corals turned white and Softies started to die from lack of N & P.....yet Cyano remained. I firmly believe that excess organic matter, like common detritus, is one of the primary things to look at when trying to pinpoint the cause. Whenever my rocks and/or sand start to take on cyano, I begin to religiously stir up the surface of the sand and blast off the rockwork. Everyone always says "increase flow", "avoid dead spots" and that is good advice. To my point, these dead areas and holes in the rock are places where organic matter will collect and modest flow will allow the organic matter to settle there.

I submit that the cyano "blankets" the organic matter and absorbs nutrients directly from it. The only thing that has ever been truly effective for me is: manual removal, stirring up the sand, blasting rockwork, siphoning detritus, increasing flow to keep organics suspended so your filtration (skimmer, mechanical) can remove it. You always need to be mindful of nutrient byproducts like NO3/PO4 but high levels more often lead to green filamentous algae IME.

Is this a newer set up? This is not uncommon for a new/newer set up. Did you use old sand by any chance?

 

[Val]

Is this a newer set up? This is not uncommon for a new/newer set up. Did you use old sand by any chance?

Last August I upgraded from a 75g and used some of that sand and the sand that came with the tank. This was a used tank I bought off of craigslist. Yeah this is still a newer setup. You guessed correctly on both counts.

I appreciate the advice and will follow it. thanks!

 

[GrendelPrime]

i was having this issue on some rock work so i picked up a cheap turkey baster and blast the rock everyother day and the problem so far hasent returned

 

[Val]

thanks Grendel, I've had some on the rocks and did the same thing you did. On the rocks it goes away pretty quick. The red on the sand isn't a problem this dark stuff is stubborn.

 

[GrendelPrime]

1 thing i cant think of is maybe try getting some sand sifting snails to help keep the sand turned over not giving the cyano a chance to form

 

[Val]

I had John over at reefcleaners put me a cuc together a few months back. If you can recommend a particular type of snail I'll check and see it was in the package.

 

[reefornot2reef]

things I have found helpful and things you need to do and or correct.
1 checking ROI water membrane and fliters
2 water changes people do not undertstand the importance of this
3 cleaning your sand every few months
4 removing sand and replacing small amounts
5 good water movement random is the key

 

[reefornot2reef]

20 gal water change is nothing for a tank that size should be around 50 gal maybe 60

 

[Val]

things I have found helpful and things you need to do and or correct.
1 checking ROI water membrane and fliters

I agree, my tds is still at zero on my ro/di water. I tested the ro/di and my saltwater it for ammonia/nitrites/nitrates and phosphates before the last water change.

2 water changes people do not undertstand the importance of this

Can't say I understand it, but I still do them.

3 cleaning your sand every few months

Other than siphoning and stirring.. what else should I be doing?

4 removing sand and replacing small amounts

Since I did use old sand this is something I've been wanting to do anyway. The old sand is a mixture of crushed coral, sugar size and special grade. I prefer the special grade. Approx how much is safe to remove at a time percentage wise?

5 good water movement random is the key

I agree and that is why I invested in the vortechs mp40es for this tank. When this algae broke out I pulled one of my old korelia evo 4's out of the closet. I do have another korelia I can add if I need to but I have great surface agitation and the gsp that came on a mushroom rock that sits on the sand has high flow.

Thanks for you input I am really interested in hearing more of your thoughts.

 

[Val]

20 gal water change is nothing for a tank that size should be around 50 gal maybe 60

I thought 10% once a week was adequate. I know when I filled this system it took right at 200gals.

 

[reefornot2reef]

I add new sand every 3 months not alot few lbs. Calibrate you TDS meter how much are you feeding. I have a 210 cube weekly water changes are 80 gal. I had a cyano out break I removed alot of sand the problem went away. Slowly adding sand back

 

[Val]

a pinch of small pellets for the fish daily
3 cubes of frozen - 1 mysis, 1 herbivore mix and 1 squid soaked in garlic and selcon over a weeks time. Fed 3x a week targeting the nem, dendro and duncan.

1 cube of frozen coral food per week divided into 3 feedings per week.

I add macro algae to the clip daily.

I will read up on my TDS meter I haven't calibrated it. I do calibrate my refractometer just didn't think about the TDS meter.

When I siphon the sand I do get about a cup of sand each time. I just throw it out. There is still plenty in the tank. Should I try to get more out each week and start replacing when it looks like it's getting thin?

thanks again for your help.

 

[reefornot2reef]

Rinse your frozen foods before feeding and add sand as it gets thin. Selcon is shady just my 2 cents I do not use them I hope you do not believe garlic keeps away ich lol

 

[Val]

I started feeding the pellets and adding selcon or vitamins and garlic to the food on the advice of a local reefer. Two of the fish were developing splotchy patches and it cleared up when I changed their diet. Don't know if it was the diet change or something else but both fish are healthy and without splotches. I just continued with the supplements. I figure it can't hurt.

 

[reefornot2reef]

LOL i do not recall garlic being in the ocean water but hey. Feeding your fish daily variety of foods will keep them healthy. I feed 13 different foods. I lost one fish in 12 years.

 

[Val]

A little update:

I siphoned out all the algae I could, then used a rake type tool and raked the top layer of the sand. I removed another 4 cups of sand making a total of about 5 cups of sand removed. Added 25 gals of new water. This did cause a bit of a sand storm, but the corals, fish and cuc loved it. Two days later it seems alot better, normally after siphoning and water change the algae is back within 24hrs covering about 1/3 of the sand, this time it's just small spots of algae.

Many thanks to everyone whom offered suggestions! I'll update this thread and let everyone know when the algae is gone.

 

[Val]

Just thought I would show a pic of the worst of the algae right before I do another water change and remove more sand. Things are definitely getting better.

 

[nanoreefing4fun]

Best of luck - did you increase your cuc with a lot of snails? I love snails for cuc, lots of them... a key for my tank - lots of great advise above !

 

[Val]

Best of luck - did you increase your cuc with a lot of snails? I love snails for cuc, lots of them... a key for my tank - lots of great advise above !

thanks for the luck! can always use that. I did have reefcleaners suggest a strong cuc for me a few months back. I'm going to remove more sand and replace alot of this old sand so I figured I'd wait until that process is done to add more snails. I appreciate all the advice given that advice is what turned this around so quickly for me. It's still a battle but it's nice to see some major improvement so fast.