Sick Swallowtail Angelfish (Genicanthus Melanospilous)

DrHank

DrHank

Well-Known Member
For the past 2+ days my female angel has been off her feed. Instead of swimming all over the tank as she normally does yesterday she hid in the reef. Today she's been in the back corner of the tank. On closer inspection I found two spots of Ick on her side. None of the other fish seem to be affected.

I'm thinking of moving her to an empty 10 gallon tank (if I can catch her without over stressing her) and starting a hypo salinity treatment. Your opinions would be appreciated.
 
lcstorc

lcstorc

Well-Known Member
Well that could possibly help her but what about the rest of the fish in the tank? How will you rid it of ich? Once it is there it is a royal pain to elimintate. Since you just swapped tanks perhaps the ich is coming out due to moving stress. If it is only a fw spots and no other symptoms I might try soaking the food in garlic and running a UV. Neither one is a cure all but both seem to help.
 
DrHank

DrHank

Well-Known Member
I'd really rather do that. I run UV 24/7. Her respiration seems fine. So far the rest of the tank seems fine. I may be mistaken but I believe that I read somewhere that Ick is always present in the tank. It is not generally a problem for healthy fish only those stressed or with compromised immune systems.
 
DrHank

DrHank

Well-Known Member
Any other views on the subject or does everyone agree with Lynn? I was hoping for a bit more response. It's difficult to form a consensus when you only have one opinion.
 
caitrina

caitrina

Well-Known Member
Ich is always present and always lives.

This is what I have read, let me find you the web site again, if I can....
 
Dentoid

Dentoid

Smile Maker
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I have to say that I agree with Lynn. Leaving them in situ, IMO, is always preferrable. That being said, I would only do this if the fishes behavior is normal (ie eating, being active etc) How are you going to get the garlic laced food into the fish if it's not eating? Two spots of ick on the fishes body shouldn't make it lethargic nor make it lose its appetite. If the ick is isolated to the skin, it should only be irritating in the early stages, perhaps, if it is ick, it has started to affect the gills thus the reason for her lethargy.

Many different pathogens present with the same symptoms. So it's imperative that you know what you are dealing with before treating it in any way. It could be something more ominous like velvet. If this fish is lethargic, then I would get it out of there before its health declines to a critical level. If you wait too long, moving it is sure to send it over the edge. It's a two edged sword. If you leave it in the tank, it could get better or worse. If you move it, it could get better or worse. I guess you have to weigh the pros/cons and risks/benefits. In the end, whether good or bad, you will have learned something and be better prepared if it happens again.

I say leave her in there over night, if in the morning she is not out and feeding, then consider moving her to the QT.
 
DrHank

DrHank

Well-Known Member
Behavior is by no means normal. Lethargy and loss of appetite in this type of fish is extremely atypical. I'll leave her tonight and check in the morning.

I do appreciate all your input. It helps jog my thought process.
 
caitrina

caitrina

Well-Known Member
Ich in Saltwater Fish: Treatment and Prevention

Although I have not read all of this, it has a lot of information and may be of help to you. I started to ignore it when I began reading about the copper meds, but continued to skim the page andcame across other suggestions. I found the facts about the diatom filter really interesting in Ick cases.
 
prow

prow

Well-Known Member
IMO, get the hyposalinity tank going and get the fish in there ASAP. the other fish i would not worry about unless another one starts to show signs, then QT all fish even if asymptomatic. the hyposalinity will help out in many ways. the lower salinity, IMO, makes things like breathing easier and ion regulation should require less energy(O2). just the decrease in breathing efforts would have a over all effect of decreasing demands on the fish and reduced metobolic rates. it will use less energy and produce less waste there by allowing the available resource to use for fight off infection. ok enough what hyposalinity does, i am sure you already know.

sence its not eating adding anything to the food is not going to help. when shes ready/willing to eat a QT would be a much better place to get a weak fish eating, shes not strong enough to compete for food during feeding frenzies now.

stress stress stress everyone and everything is causing her more stress and shes getting weaker and weaker. QT her, not only for the stress, not only to give treatment opions, not only to get her to feed, but because the longer the ich have a place to breed(your angel) the more they will multiply the more likely she will not make it and die, also your other fish will become infested and could lead to everyone becoming infected.

catch her at night while sleeping its so much easier.
 
Dentoid

Dentoid

Smile Maker
PREMIUM
You may want to suppliment the food you are feeding your other fish however, to help build their immune systems so that they are prepared for what ever may be in the tank.
 
DrHank

DrHank

Well-Known Member
Thanks folks. I'm going to try to move her to the QT this morning. Will keep you posted of progress.
 
bluespotjawfish

bluespotjawfish

Well-Known Member
I would do a freshwater dip to give her some immediate relief. Are the spots worse today?

Remember to take the salinity down slowly (2+ days), and even more important bring it back even slower (3+ days).
 
DrHank

DrHank

Well-Known Member
I thought about a freshwater dip but didn't have time before work this morning. Will probably dip her this evening. I really feel sorry for her, she was doing perfectly until after the move. I'm going to bet that's what brought on the illness. At least she won't be bothered in the QT.

Amazingly, while she was in the back corner of the display, my blue spotted rabbitfish positioned himself close to her and raised dorsals at any other inhabitant that approached her.
 
DrHank

DrHank

Well-Known Member
Well, it's just too soon to tell. She's in the QT. Respiration is fine. Equilibrium seems fine. She remains pretty much on the bottom. I tried her on Ocean Plankton (her favorite) soaked all afternoon in garlic and no dice. I think that she may be swimming a bit more but it might just my desire that she does.Took salinity from 1.025 to 1.022 today. Plan to reduce it gradually to 1.019 tomorrow. I'll just have to take one day at a time. At least she doesn't appear to be doing worse. Only one small dot obvious above her eye.

Decided against the added stress of a freshwater dip. I think that may have been the right call. I'll keep you folks posted. Checked the rest of the display and no sign of Ick. Maybe I caught it quickly enough. I sure hope so. Thanks for all your advice.
 
C

cheeks69

Wannabe Guru
RS STAFF
Ich is always present and always lives.

This is what I have read, let me find you the web site again, if I can....
Click to expand...

This is incorrect. Crypto irritans is a parasite and it must be introduced to your system and once in the system the only way to completely eliminate it is to leave the tank without any fish for a minimum of 4-6 weeks and of course treat your fish in a QT with either copper or hyposalinity. Since you only notice a couple of spots on the Angel it doesn't appear that Ick is the primary problem usually in the advanced stages of the infection that's when you notice secondary bacterial infections and severe damage to the gills.

What are you using for filtation in the 10 gal tank DrHank ? It's a difficult decision to move the fish but a hypo treatment is a good course of action the only problem can be an established biological filter.
 
DrHank

DrHank

Well-Known Member
Foam block from the display sump. Air lift protein skimmer, HOT magnum running carbon, 15 lbs of live rock from the sump of the display. Primary symptoms were lethargy and loss of appetite. Secondary three small white cysts (about the size of a pencil point) on the skin. No apparent problems with respiration.

Honestly, it's got me confused. I'm wondering if it is really Crypro irritans. The last time I had a problem of that type it was much more extensive and wound up killing all the fish in my tank. That was back in 1987. It didn't present with a few cysts, the fish seemed to be covered over night.

Anyway, I'm glad I moved her to the QT. I'd be a lot happier if she'd start eating again. Maybe the hypo environment will improve organ system function. I'll be watching the params on the 10 gallon like a hawk. We all know that it can deteriorate rapidly.

Any other suggestions will be appreciated. I am by no means an expert in diagnosis and treatment of fish diseases.
 
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