ok, algae is eating my goat.

rDr4g0n

Well-Known Member
well not my literal goat, but if i was in possesion of a goat, it would be being eaten by algae. point is, i gots an algael problem.

the stuff grows like crazy on my sandbed. flourescent green, brown, and even patches of the thick red crap. its starting to grow on my LR too. what i thought was the beginning of coralline growth is pretty much just dark red/purple algae growing on the glass. the algae is producing bubbles, both on my glass and on my sandbed (and IN my sandbed). the trates are around 5 - 10 according to my regular test, and 40 according to one of the quick dip strips.

the algae does NOT grown in my other tank, which is on the same system. the only differences are the lighting on the other tank is a regular ol incandescent bulb, and teh substrate is crushed coral and NOT the sand in the main tank.

i suspect the sand as the culprit, probably being loaded with silicates. ive been treating with phos-sponge, which is supposed to first absorb phosphates, then absorb silicates. im also doing more frequent water changes.

so im getting increasingly irritated. what should i do? remove ALL teh sand? cut off my arm? jump off my apartment balcony?

besides treating the problem, i want to know the SOURCE of teh problem!
 

DrHank

Well-Known Member
When you say red and moving on to your LR it sounds to me like cyanobacteria. This is what I'd do. First, turn your lights off for two days. It shouldn't hurt anything in your tank except for dinoflagelates (if you have them and I doubt you do) and cyanobacteria. Second, increase circulation. Add a few powerheads or a Hydor Korallia pump or two (they are awesome). Third, cut back on feeding by about half.

You need to resist the urge to turn the lights on because cyano loves light. Hopefully you are using RO/DI water for your make up. If not, put a unit on your Christmas in July list because you really need one. You also want to get both nitrate and phosphate to undetectable levels. Cheato in the sump (lighted for at least 16 hours per day, a seperate fuge with macro algae, or a phosban reactor, or a combination of these items will go a long way in reducing phosphate and nitrate.

There are other things too but try items 1 through 3 first. Good luck!
 

rDr4g0n

Well-Known Member
i used water from teh local "water huts" theyre like vending machines for 5 gallon jugs of water. i know they are RO, but not sure about DI. i live in an apartment, so i dont think i can install an ro/di system.

my fuge has lots of feather caulerpa, but not chaeto... i need to get some of that. i dont have a kit to test for phosphates, but i use fresh phos sponge about one day a week.

i will keep the lights off tomorrow and the day after, and put my extra powerhead in and see how that does. thanks for teh tips! any other advice?
 

Dentoid

Smile Maker
PREMIUM
Get some Phosban or Rowaphos, put it in a chemibag and throw that sucker in the sump, preferably in the line of flow. It'll take care of the phosphates in no time. Increasing flow will go along way to helping combat:guns: this scourge.
 

vdituri

Well-Known Member
John,
You can put a ro/di unit in an apartment. I have one in mine. It's not elegant by any means, but it has improved my water quality.

1. I used the adapter that came with the RO unit. It adapts from sink threads to outside hose threads.
2. Then I went to ACE hardware and got an outside hose splitter. It has an on/off switch for both outlets.
3. Then I hooked up the RO unit to one side of the splitter and I can get regular water out the 2nd.
 

sasquatch

Brunt of all Jokes~
PREMIUM
Can we call you Red Dragon now? um just pick up the di filter and pump your ro thru it, now the delicate bit, umm the cf bulb was bought on e bay? I was wondering if a low life#732%% person maybe sold you his used up light? shifts in bulbs can trigger outbreaks and i think the time frame fits as well.steve
 

rDr4g0n

Well-Known Member
well the phos sponge stuff i bought is supposed to work. i assume my phosphates are under control. the silicates on teh other hand... the thing is this sand is apparently straight from teh ocean (the package says it is at least), meaning its not aragonite. its probably a mix of stuff, including silicates. i suspect the sand is fueling teh algae.

the lighting may also be fueling it... that cheap CF bulb could indeed be the reason.

id love to get an RO/DI and seahare and all taht, but im broke. even if i had money the wife would punch me in the throat lol
 

blue_eyes53813

Well-Known Member
I think I know exactly what you are dealing with..I had the same c#$% and it is hard to get rid of. I dealt with it for months and it kept coming back and still does but is very minimul.
What I did over and over and over.
1. Weekly water changes 0f 25-30%
2.cleaned all sponges and filter daily
3. Use Alot of carbon 24/7
4.Use phos ban 24/7
5. Increased circulation near algae areas, Mainly low in the tank( this helped alot)
6.reduced lighting time to half
7. Turned off lights for 2 days(some do 3 days), but my acros didnt care for it much. This helped alot to. the algae just pealed off. Increase filtration during this to eliminate what floats around.
8.Write down all additives that are being added to the tank. One might be feeding the algae.
9. Reduce feedings to everyother day or every third day.
10. If using products like DTs, eliminate it for the time being..

Here is the link to my battle. Pictures on page 6
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums...ssion/15840-ive-been-trying-figure-out-6.html
 

rDr4g0n

Well-Known Member
i would clean my sandbed weekly since teh algae growth on it is so ridiculous. these pics are of my sandbed after a week...

algae2.jpg


algae3.jpg


algae4.jpg


and this is my back glass. i never clean it... at first i thought this was coralline, but now im not so sure lol

algae1.jpg


and finally, my LR is starting to turn reddish brown...

algae5.jpg


no lights for today, and i added an extra powerhead (i have a really noisy one i use for waterchanges... hope teh fish dont mind the noise lol).
 

DaBird

Well-Known Member
Look at all the pretty colors!!....I say the same as blue eyes john... I would also try to get one of those cheap sand vacs and get that stuff out of your tank...and more stress on water changes...or stare at it and pretend you got some really good drug...LOL
 

BoomerD

Well-Known Member
Dump the phosphate sponge. Not sure which one you're using, but MOST of them only work until they've exhausted their absorption potential, then leak the phosphates back into the tank...
Definitely switch to one of the ferric iron oxide types of phosphate remover, (rowaphos, phosban, etc.) and use a dedicated phosphate reactor like the one from 2 little fishies (phosban reactor) and a very small pump. IIRC, you only want about 80 gph through the reactor, both to increase contact time, and to keep the media from disintegrating under the flow...that will turn your entire tank orange...been there...;)
No idea about your bulbs, but if it were a used bulb, it should have been pretty obvious...darkened ends near the contacts, or elsewhere.
I suspect high nutrients is the main cause...

Oh yeah, btw, phosban and rowaphos will help remove silicates as well.
If you think silicates are the cause, buy a silicate test kit and find out...
Salifert Silicate Test Kit - Marine Depot - Marine and Reef Aquarium Super Store
 

rDr4g0n

Well-Known Member
ok, the phos sponge stuff i use removes silicates as well. i use it for a day, dump it, and put a fresh batch in. the first batch absorbs the phos, i remove it and put a second, clean, batch grabs the silicates (since its not packed with phos). at least, thats what the package says lol. so i think phos and silicates are fine. i have a HOB filter in my sump that i put the phos abosorbing media in, and all the water through the sump runs through this filter, so the water is being very actively introducted to the phos absorbing stuff. it doesnt dissolve the media into the water stream either.

like ive said above, and still havent heard any opinions on, i think the algae is feeding off of the sand. i cant get rid of the silicates till i get rid of the sand basically. of course, thats my totally inexperienced amateur opinion.

when i do water changes, i vacuum the sand. i have a powerhead adpter thingy that is perfect for vacuuming the sand. like i said, the pics are after a week with no vacuum. usually when it gets that bad, i would be vacuuming it to a shiny white again.

finally, as for the bulb being used, it appeared to be brand new, but then again, you cant really tell.
 

BoomerD

Well-Known Member
That is cyanobacteria, aka blue-green algae, and usually is a definite sign of high phosphates and/or low water flow. It CAN however be fueled by high nitrates, or high levels of DOCs. (dissolved organic carbons)
From Bob Fenner at WetWebFotos:
WetWebFotos.com - Article/FAQ

""I don’t want them", "Where’d they come from?":

Sources of BGA’s are many… live rock, water from livestock introductions, foods, even "just" the air can supply sufficient spore material to get your tank going… Face it, given conditions and the absence of other competing life forms that DON’T favor BGA, they will occur, proliferate. What are these conditions? Read on:

Environmental Conditions Favoring BGA

Habitat

The following generalizations are, of a necessity, just that. As a rule BGA are attached forms that cover, loosely or not, rock, substrates, other living things, though there are some free floating forms that can be responsible for "green water" conditions.

Chemical/Physical

As you might guess, these "winning" life forms (they’ve been here much longer than most everything else) display tremendous environmental range and tolerance to change. Including such parameters as higher and lower pH's than "higher" forms of life (that do well mainly between 8.0-8.3); stable temperatures (in the low 70's to low 80's); ditto for specific gravity (1.023-1.025). BGA are euryhaline and readily adapt to inconstancy.

Alternatively, as aquarists we should focus on providing "better" more stable conditions favoring the "true" algae. Their use of nutrients, light, and production of chemicals is the best defense against BGA problems.

Be wary of poor filtration or water changing practices that leave your system with too much organic and inorganic source nutrient (or adding more through overzealous supplementation, aka additives). You want your nitrates to be low (less than 10ppm) and little phosphorus content (less than 0.5ppm), through water changing, periodic use of chemical filtrants, nad uptake by purposeful beneficial algae taking up these dissolved nutrients.

It should, must be stated that even given the usual measures of nutrient availability showing low concentrations you may still run into cyano problems… they’re actually fueled much more by DOCs, dissolved organic carbon compounds… hence the careful cleaning and use of a decent protein skimmer as a first line of defense, limiting DOCs in your water. And, ahem, where do these celebrated DOC’s come from? Principally (over)feeding. Be especially leary of liquid invertebrate and gelatin based frozen foods… these are notorious sources of DOC.

Lighting

Besides water quality, the quality, quantity and duration of useful wavelengths of light are most important in determining the health of beneficial algae and by corollary, disfavoring BGAs.. Use of various types of regular, high, very-high output, compact fluorescents and metal halide lighting have all been employed with good success. A good rule of thumb/guideline might be 2-5 watts of lighting per gallon, very roughly, depending on species, depth of tank, and much more.

Filtration

Filtering water involves all we do to modify its make-up chemically, physically and biologically. This being stated, by doing your best to remove excess nutrients like phosphates and nitrates (through periodic use of chemical filtrants like activated carbon, keeping your skimmer optimally clean and operational). This is a key approach to BGA prevention as "higher" photosynthetic life forms are far more able to survive and outcompete cyanobacteria at lower nutrient level concentrations.

Aeration/Circulation

Cyanobacteria thrive in low circulation, poorly aerated conditions. Hence the call for vigorous water movement and near-saturation levels of dissolved oxygen. Providing powerheads, small submersible pumps, mechanical aerators and directing discharges from outside filters and pumping mechanisms are the best way to accomplish optimized circulation and aeration. Direct these devices to eliminate stagnant areas.

BGA Control

Despite their best plans and actions aquarists frequently run into some cyanobacteria problems, especially when their systems are going through initial cycling and settling in. There are a few appropriate responses to these situations, and one that is often employed that you should (and will) be advised against. Here are the suggested controls.

Elbow Grease:

Gingerly wiping the slimy colonies from the tanks sides, regularly removing the mass of the BGA from the gravel and décor surfaces goes a long way to removing the BGA and their ill-effects.

This batch might be gravel-vacuumed away. Yes, it's not the "right" color, but this is assuredly Cyano/BGA To do: need pic

Siphoning

The bulk of the colonies out. Not only does this work directly in removing the BGA, but something in the way of chemical self-destruction is often triggered in removing the cyanobacteria in this way. A small diameter rigid tube attached to a siphon hose works wonders.

Less Food:

Being careful to make especially major nutrients like nitrates and phosphates limited is important. Be on your guard against overstocking and overfeeding fishes and invertebrates. Also, very importantly, be wary of putting in too much in the way of chemical supplements and to a lesser extent, chemical food from your tapwater and synthetic salt mix.

Enhanced Filtration:

Better foam fractionators utilizing ozone, preserving and increasing redox potential will increase desirable photosynthetic life and decrease unwanted algal forms growth. Practical chemical filtration can be of service in the pre-emptive removal of chemical foods.

Biological Controls:

Unfortunately, other than some possible hermit crab species, there are no "clean up" crews, other animals to suggest that will regularly eat Cyanobacteria species on an assured basis. Instead, biological controls take the form of competing forms. Using macro-algae, live rock, and photosynthetic cnidarians (some of the gorgonians, corals, anemones) to utilize available light and nutrients prevents BGA proliferation directly. These organisms production of certain chemicals further combats BGA spread.

Antibiotic Control Cautionary Remarks:

There are numerous products promoted as chemical controls of BGA, some erythromycin antibiotic based, others of copper, sugars, even pepper sauce… All should be avoided on two counts: Though they (the antibiotic based ones) may apparently work, the materials that make up the BGA frequently poison the system within minutes to days of their "dissolving". And, adding insult to injury, unless you change the circumstances/conditions in your system, the cyanobacteria very often "reassemble" in a short while if chemically treated.

Close:

Blue-green slime algae growth should be avoided on several fronts. By way of limiting nutrients, through careful feeding of appropriate foods and limiting use of supplements, proper lighting, adequate filtration, circulation and aeration, and stocking of competing photosynthetic life. Should you have a massive outbreak of cyanobacteria, look to the root causes detailed here and attack your BGA problems at their root causes: lack of competing photosynthates, overabundance of chemical foods, and stagnant, low oxygenated water. Beware of chemical fixes for these noisome algae types. They don’t work in the long term, and may well poison your livestock in the short. "
 

BigAl07

Administrator
RS STAFF
I was battling that same bastr*$d a couple of months ago! I stopped using Marine Snow, really cut back on feeding (fish haven't lost ANY weight either) and added an additional powerhead inside the tank to increase flow. Within about 2 weeks it started more or less peeling off. I just sucked it out or pulled it out by hand, increased water changes and now my tank at home is apparently algae free! (crosses fingers here). Also I added Cheato into my fuge and have been running the light in it 24/7 which I may modify to run reverse to the display tank. Not sure which ONE of these did the trick but SOMETHING did. I would suggest getting a new bulb just in case thus eliminating that as a cause. If the bulb has even slightly degraded it could have "shifted" into the spectrum that's especially favorable to that nasty crap!!

Good luck and hang in there buddy!!

Allen
 

vdituri

Well-Known Member
Has your head exploded yet?
There is alot of info in this thread.
Pretty colors by the way! Very healthy algae/cyano. :)
 

rDr4g0n

Well-Known Member
i need to build a hepa filter box for my air pump for my skimmer. that way i wont have to replace air stones, which will keep the skimmer running at full capacity all the time. too bad my extra cash for teh month is going into car repairs.

thanks for the info boomer. i wasnt aware that cyano came in so many delicious colors! its actually kinda pretty except for the air bubbles it makes on everything
 

blue_eyes53813

Well-Known Member
Very nice write up BoomerD... All of it makes very good sense and part about low flow and removal of nutrients is very very important.
 

DrHank

Well-Known Member
Sorry, definately cyanobacteria. Looks like some form of green nusiance algae as well. If you have caulerpa in the fuge, don't worry about cheato. You need to be harvesting the caulerpa as it grows. I wouldn't go the eurythromycin route. It may kill the cyano but it will also kill your beneficial bacteria.

As I posted earlier. Lights off for 2 or 3 days. Increase circulation. Water changes with DI water. Good luck!
 
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