NewB looking for some help

Mricco

New Member
Hey, so I just started a new 25 gallon tank I added the live sand and cycled the tank, then I made sure all my levels were right before I added any rock and some fish. I started with a pair of clown fish a shrimp and two different types of gobys. Also about 6 tiny hermit crabs. The next night when I came home one of the clownfish was dead and the hermit crabs was eating him. They both seem fine and now I am worried. My other fish seem to be fine and happy. But the other clown fish is experiencing odd behavior. That first night all he did was sit at the bottom of the tank in a corner alone. And it looked like he was giving up. The next day he hung out at the top by the filter and every so often he would fall sideways. I've been sure he is going to die too. So I checked my levels again and it has become apparent that the ammonia is the only thing that seemed to have change slightly. So I quickly did a 20% water change and added some chemicals that remove it. Is there anything I can do to help him if he is sick? The tank is so new that I'm also worried that the ammonia will not get better and cause stress for the rest of the fish. Need some guidance :/
 

goma

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
PREMIUM
First off, welcome to RS!! The problem is that when you added the rock and the fish, you caused a small cycle that most likely pushed the ammonia up and killed the fish. The proper way to do it is to put all the rock, water and sand in the tank. Add an ammonia source such as a deli shrimp. Then monitor your levels. You should seem something like the chart below. The thing to do now is constantly monitor your ammonia and if you see any increase, to do water changes to drop it down.

goma-albums-cycle-picture25632-cycle1.jpg
 

Mricco

New Member
Thank you! Okay so this would be day two since I did the water change. My next concern is that I have been maki the water myself and not buying the pre-made water, which is why I believed the ammonia was up. But it made sense that since I added the rock and fish it increased it. How much time do you recommend I wait before the next water change. I have been testing it and that's the only thing that is high.
Thank you again for such a quick response. :)
 

Joeys Tank

Well-Known Member
When you say you are making your own water instead of using pre-made, what are you doing to make your own water? Are you using RO/DI water or water from the tap? Using salt mixtures per directions of the box?

When you say ammonia is the only thing that is high, what parameters are you checking? With an increase in ammonia, you should being seeing nitrites increasing within 24-48 hours. I recommend testing ammonia and nitrites daily. Since you have fish in the tank, you will need to be on top of this. Do water changes if you detect any level of ammonia or nitrites. This process is going to stress your fish in the tank.

How long has the tank been set up? You mentioned "just started", does this mean the tank has been set up for a week? Greg provided a great chart to help identify when your tank has cycled and the first fish can be added. How long did you give the rock and sand time to cycle before adding fish? You added 4 fish to a 25 gal tank. What was the timeline of adding those fish? All within the same day/week?

A 25 gal system will be more succeptable to water parameter changes than a large volume tank. Adding one fish will greatly increase the bioload of a 25 gal tank than it would on a 250 gal tank. The amount of bioload increase is the same, but the impact is greater on smaller tanks. Time is needed for your tank, bacteria, and husbandry skills to adjust to the new bioload. Recommendations on this are approximately one fish per month. Some of the larger tanks can get away with two-three, but your tank will have a greater response.

At this point in the game either remove the fish and let the tank cycle or stay constantly on top of it. Your clown is demonstrating stressed behavior patterns most likely due to your water. Not that you are using the wrong type of water, but that your system hasn't cycled enough for the bacteria to break down fish and food waste.

With the frequent water changes, also keep an eye on salinity. Evaporated water needs to be replaced with nonsalt water since the salt doesn't leave the tank. For people who do weekly water changes, a recommended approach is to top off the tank with clean water first and then do a water change with salt water (or continuously top off the water with an automatic system). For those who do daily water changes, salinity may get out of whack due to not accounting for evaporation.

A common mantra in the hobby is "nothing good happens quickly in a tank". Don't let the loss of your first clown discourage you.
 

Mricco

New Member
I used regular tap water and added the salt and chemicals all before adding the fish. Tested all the levels including nitrates and nitrites etc. they were perfect for about a month before adding the fish. Then I checked the levels again after I added them and noticed that the only thing that has changed is the ammonia it went up slightly, but I know that is enough to stress the fish. I have done daily tests and nothing else has changed but neither has the ammonia level Alrhough the fish seem to be doing okay. IT definitely makes sense that I should have waited and added the fish much more slowly. There is no bacteria or build up in the tank either. I don't want to get discouraged but I also want to do whatever I can to prevent another fish from dying. I realized that I shouldn't have listened to them in the pet store because not only did they tell me my tank water was fine but they were trying to encourage me to add more fish then I already have.
 

Joeys Tank

Well-Known Member
What is your ammonia level reading? In one post you mention that your ammonia is high and in your last post you mention that your ammonia went up slightly.

It is very odd that you are not showing any increase in nitrites. You also mention that there is no bacteria in your tank.

Biological filtration comes from live sand and live rock. Nitrifying bacteria reproduces on and in the porous material. One type of bacteria breaks down ammonia into nitrites. Another type of bacteria breaks down nitrites into nitrates. Ammonia and nitrites are toxic to fish and this is what people look for to go to zero prior to adding fish. Ammonia is added to the tank as matter decays and from the urine of fish. Therefore, if you are noticing an increase in ammonia it is coming from decaying matter (overfeeding, something dying, etc) and from your fish. The bacteria that breaks down ammonia reproduces quickly. The bacteria which breaks down nitrites reproduce a little slower which is why I am interested why you aren't seeing any nitrites. Once a balance is established within your tank, you will get zero readings for ammonia and nitrites because your bacteria has sufficient population to take care of it. Adding to the bioload of a tank means that time is needed for the bacteria to increase in numbers.

Nitrates are mainly removed by water changes, but there are also denitrifying bacteria which will break down nitrates into nitrogen gas. This takes even longer for this bacteria population to increase and why we see alternative methods used to reduce nitrate levels (Purigen, water changes, carbon dosing, etc).

Better advice requires better information. What type of rock did you add? Was it dry? Live? Wet? How long was it exposed to air prior to adding into your tank? If the rock and fish were added at the same time ("I made sure all my levels were perfect before adding any rock and some fish"), this would not have given your tank enough time to build up a sufficient level of nitrifying bacteria. Depending on the condition of rock, you may have had some die-off occuring. Adding fish added to the waste products in the water. Along with the fish came feeding. Uneated food will decay as well.

Tap water contains alot of additives which are not good for marine life but are beneficial to human consumption. For example, fluoride. Also, metals are present in your tap water (copper). I would look into either purchasing saltwater from your local fish store or setting up a water purification system (RO/DI).
 

Mricco

New Member
The ammonia is at .50 ppm and all the other levels are at 0 where they should be. It changes slightly getting lighter green and back to darker when I do the test. I've fed them less and take out excess food myself if they don't eat it. I suppose it's the tap water. They told me in the store u could use that and mix the salt myself if Filtered it and added the anti ammonia solution they gave me I'm going to look into purchasing the salt water u til I can set up my own water purification system.
 

goma

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
PREMIUM
Don't use tap water. For now buy your saltwater from the LFS.

You need to do some pretty big water changes to bring that ammonia down. It needs to be at zero.
 

nanoreefing4fun

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
welcomefish.gif

to ReefSanctuary, a real Sanctuary of reef forums, with lots of very nice members
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Start a new tank thread & share your tank with us so we can follow along - we love pics :)
 

sushi62

Member
Thanks for the FAQ link. I bookmarked it myself. Can't offer any advice as I'm a newbie too, but good luck. Lots of good info and people here.
 
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