If You Could Do It All Over Again Would You Go Custom?
- Thread starter sailz
- Start date
redsea reefer
Well-Known Member
Tammy - You know I will NEVER leave the RSM Club, I love you guys too much.
If I ever decide to go bigger, the RSM will be turned into something but I don't have a plans for that in the near future.
The premise of the 1st question... is AIO or custom better, for me the RSM AIO tank has been great & a very beautiful tank, something that was very very important to me, like a nice piece of custom furniture.
RSM tanks that have lots of customization, are just that, custom tanks.
We have several members in the RSM Club that have moved from large custom tanks to the RSM tanks & also several members that have moved up. Can say, I have seen few if any post, of members that moved up & said they regret having started with a RSM tank.
RSM tanks that have lots of customization, are just that, custom tanks.
We have several members in the RSM Club that have moved from large custom tanks to the RSM tanks & also several members that have moved up. Can say, I have seen few if any post, of members that moved up & said they regret having started with a RSM tank.
Want to point out one more HUGE upside to RSM Tanks - the RSM Owners Club here on RS.
Here in the RSM Club you can get support & help from lots of members that have the exact same tank you have and are always willing to help with timely replies & no flames, this is a HUGE upside to anyone starting thier 1st swt, I know it was to me, it was also a big part of my decision to buy a RSM, besides the gorgeous looks.
some balance... see below post ... just needs more RS members to reply... to his post in the Equipment Forum.
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/equipment/55664-advice-equipment-first-tank.html
Here in the RSM Club you can get support & help from lots of members that have the exact same tank you have and are always willing to help with timely replies & no flames, this is a HUGE upside to anyone starting thier 1st swt, I know it was to me, it was also a big part of my decision to buy a RSM, besides the gorgeous looks.
some balance... see below post ... just needs more RS members to reply... to his post in the Equipment Forum.
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/equipment/55664-advice-equipment-first-tank.html
pocketreef
Member
I see a lot of you use the RSM to learn but It is way harder to keep anything on a AIO than on a custom tank. I am learnig a lot to be restricted on infra. It is a challenge to advanced aquarists too.
I would go RSM again.
I would go RSM again.
Oakhouse
Member
I've been reading and re reading this thread trying to think if I would go custom or RSM, in all honesty I still cannot answer.
For:
The RSM is the most stylish AIO
It is simple for a complete novice (the only fish I've keep previously were goldfish in a bowl!)
There really is only one additional piece of kit IMO required - an ATO.
Price - Its all includsive (except ATO!), I dont think its expensive for what it is.
Against.
Size... Having started I realised that some of the fish I initially thought would be alright to keep in it are not. I have seen a few recently that have made me think I need to upgrade soon.
Thats all I've got against!
Having written it out I think I would honestly go for RSM again. My other half has also realised that its not big enough! lol. and has decided it will become a Coral only (with very few fish) eventually!!! LOL I've still a mind to turn it into a seahorse/pipefish tank, that is once I upgrade.
For:
The RSM is the most stylish AIO
It is simple for a complete novice (the only fish I've keep previously were goldfish in a bowl!)
There really is only one additional piece of kit IMO required - an ATO.
Price - Its all includsive (except ATO!), I dont think its expensive for what it is.
Against.
Size... Having started I realised that some of the fish I initially thought would be alright to keep in it are not. I have seen a few recently that have made me think I need to upgrade soon.
Thats all I've got against!
Having written it out I think I would honestly go for RSM again. My other half has also realised that its not big enough! lol. and has decided it will become a Coral only (with very few fish) eventually!!! LOL I've still a mind to turn it into a seahorse/pipefish tank, that is once I upgrade.
Bobi1956
Active Member
Well I'm new here and have a RSM 250. I previously owned a 125 gallon and got rid of it in conjunction with move. I bought the 250 because of it's looks and well conceived from standpoint of them doing good job of hiding everything. I don't even have water in my tank yet LOL and am already ordering things due to what I've learned here - like the skimmer sux and the heater isn't reliable, etc etc. Bottom line depends on where u want to end up - if the bigger tank is more appealing to you I would urge you to go custom
cabolick
Member
Would I go custom, yes, but for what I have invested in my 130D my CFO wouldn't be very happy with me. I'd probably have to get a second job to support my habit. Sometimes it is very rough seeing all the nice "larger" tanks, but its the challenge of doing it smaller that appeals to me also. I looked at a 57 gal rimless the other thought about how much I would love to fill it up with fish and corals:smack: . I'll stick with what I have for right now and just make the best of it. Maybe if all the frags I have bought will start growing maybe I can start hawking frags one day. Just a thought!!
Dweezil
Well-Known Member
haha We are a lovable group arn't we? :hug1:
Nigma
Member
i think for your 1st tank.. the RSM is a good tank to have. it does teach you A LOT on how things should be setup, heck in my next tank (a bigger tank) i will set up just like the RSM, basically make a sump in the back of the tank. IMO its eazier to deal with than a sump/fuge on the bottom.
Nowellsy SNR
Active Member
I feel the love in this thread lol
pocketreef
Member
The RSM is my 3rd tank and I think there is nothing easier than a separated sump where you reach everything. There are thousands of skimmer options, all accessories fit ( you know what I mean).
RSM are convenient, but not easier. I believe keeping a RSM at a high standard using stock equipment a kind of art. There are many artists here.
RSM are convenient, but not easier. I believe keeping a RSM at a high standard using stock equipment a kind of art. There are many artists here.
When it is all said and done, I do agree that the RSM 130D / 250 .... are excellent products ... dont get me wrong I love it ... just frustrated with certain things ... which are my fault. If i would have left everything alone and not upgraded anything .... hehe I would probably be better off. Its not helping that I just quit smoking either .... hehe so I would like to revisit this in 6 month after I can say fairly the pros/cons that i have experienced.
:biker
:biker
I have $769 invested in my RSM tank... plan on selling it one day for $400, when I upgrade to a RSM 250 and I will have enjoyed it for over one year.
When it comes to swt's how can you beat that!
When I put my $400 from the sale of the 130D towards a RSM 250, I will only have to put about $1,200 more into the 250 & I am planning on running it stock too.
I am pretty happy with my RSM and will really be happy with a RSM 250 running T5's.
Not counting Livestock & LR, just the physical tank & stand & AIO equipment.
When it comes to swt's how can you beat that!
When I put my $400 from the sale of the 130D towards a RSM 250, I will only have to put about $1,200 more into the 250 & I am planning on running it stock too.
I am pretty happy with my RSM and will really be happy with a RSM 250 running T5's.
Not counting Livestock & LR, just the physical tank & stand & AIO equipment.
The 130D was the perfect way for me to start with Saltwater.
Even though I have all the equipment already prepared from when I bought my 120 gallon tank to go saltwater, I wanted the experience on a smaller tank.
Beginner losses on a 120 gallon tank would be staggering... and I still would need to buy $1,000 worth of lighting. Money is a huge deciding factor.
If you can keep livestock healthy in a 130D, you can keep them thriving in a much larger tank. Once I get my own apt/condo/house, then I can start thinking about converting that 120
Even though I have all the equipment already prepared from when I bought my 120 gallon tank to go saltwater, I wanted the experience on a smaller tank.
Beginner losses on a 120 gallon tank would be staggering... and I still would need to buy $1,000 worth of lighting. Money is a huge deciding factor.
If you can keep livestock healthy in a 130D, you can keep them thriving in a much larger tank. Once I get my own apt/condo/house, then I can start thinking about converting that 120
magnetar68
Member
I am really glad some asked this question. Although I am too new to this hobby to add value, I have been thinking a lot about this, so here are my thoughts anyway.
First, let me say that I have an RSM 130D and I like it. One of the strongest statements about a product is whether someone would recommend to a friend. As for me, I would; but the answer is qualified, so that muddies the water a bit.
Product sales are always about building a brand and marketing message that puts the product in its best light. We in marketing call this "spin" instead of lying, although sometimes the line can be blurry (or downright crossed!). The most important aspect of selling most products are the big three: the top three reasons that someone would buy your product over the alternatives, whether they be competitive products or DIY. (Of course, for any individual, there may be 7 or 1 reasons, but, in working with statistically significant sample sizes, having at least three primary compelling reasons to buy something increase the chances of successful selling.)
RSM's marketing niche is an all-in-one-we-make-it-so-easy thing. They offer a lot at a very good price (relative to alternatives) and in a very attractive package. So, in short, they are usually winning with customers where the following are important (not necessarily in this order for every person):
So that's the marketing, but the reality is more complicated. The fact that the users in the forum (from my estimate, the largest RSM user community in the world) often recommend upgrades means that the product falls short with (1) and perhaps (3) above. Of course, there are plenty of people out there running reefs with 100% stock RSM equipment -- maybe they are not as robust or healthy or easy-to-maintain as others with some upgrades; maybe they are a little louder; and maybe they house only harder species. Or, maybe the stock stuff works fine for them because sometimes the stock stuff works well. The point is that there is variability in expectations.
Is that bad? Not really. I doubt aquariums are a high margin business. We all want products sold by manufacturers that will be around to support those products, so we don't expect perfection. But those of us with a few mushrooms and damsel fish are not as picky as those with more difficult LPS corals. Also, the fact that many (not all) of RSM's customers are beginners means that many do not have an experience base through which to judge whether they bought a good product.
So for me, the IDEAL vendor would offer the following:
Although not marketed this way, the RSM does meet this criteria. The inTank media basket, my Koralia, the tunze 9002 skimmer, and my jager heater are arguably reasonable upgrades (IMHO, I should not need to upgrade the heater). It would have been better to have the option to include them in the original order, but now I have a backup skimmer and heater which I should probably have anyway.
I think there is an opening for another entrant into this space. The ordering process would be more like ordering a Dell computer. You get the standard components at the base price, but can add additional components for more money. On idea would be to select a bunch of specific animals or maybe general types and tank builder wizard would recommend specific upgrades. I think it would be best if the vendor did not also sell it's own components, but instead offered a wider range of options.
Of course, this would not be cheaper than the RSM. It would be more expensive. The margins would not be as good either, but if you could do the volume to cover costs, you might just stay in business.
First, let me say that I have an RSM 130D and I like it. One of the strongest statements about a product is whether someone would recommend to a friend. As for me, I would; but the answer is qualified, so that muddies the water a bit.
Product sales are always about building a brand and marketing message that puts the product in its best light. We in marketing call this "spin" instead of lying, although sometimes the line can be blurry (or downright crossed!). The most important aspect of selling most products are the big three: the top three reasons that someone would buy your product over the alternatives, whether they be competitive products or DIY. (Of course, for any individual, there may be 7 or 1 reasons, but, in working with statistically significant sample sizes, having at least three primary compelling reasons to buy something increase the chances of successful selling.)
RSM's marketing niche is an all-in-one-we-make-it-so-easy thing. They offer a lot at a very good price (relative to alternatives) and in a very attractive package. So, in short, they are usually winning with customers where the following are important (not necessarily in this order for every person):
- All-in-one, out-of-the box
- Modern and Attractive
- Affordable
So that's the marketing, but the reality is more complicated. The fact that the users in the forum (from my estimate, the largest RSM user community in the world) often recommend upgrades means that the product falls short with (1) and perhaps (3) above. Of course, there are plenty of people out there running reefs with 100% stock RSM equipment -- maybe they are not as robust or healthy or easy-to-maintain as others with some upgrades; maybe they are a little louder; and maybe they house only harder species. Or, maybe the stock stuff works fine for them because sometimes the stock stuff works well. The point is that there is variability in expectations.
Is that bad? Not really. I doubt aquariums are a high margin business. We all want products sold by manufacturers that will be around to support those products, so we don't expect perfection. But those of us with a few mushrooms and damsel fish are not as picky as those with more difficult LPS corals. Also, the fact that many (not all) of RSM's customers are beginners means that many do not have an experience base through which to judge whether they bought a good product.
So for me, the IDEAL vendor would offer the following:
- Easy-to-use, out-of-the-box solution
- Attractive, contemporary design
- Affordable Pricing
- Quality product and support
- The ability to upgrade various components based on what I intended to keep in the tank
Although not marketed this way, the RSM does meet this criteria. The inTank media basket, my Koralia, the tunze 9002 skimmer, and my jager heater are arguably reasonable upgrades (IMHO, I should not need to upgrade the heater). It would have been better to have the option to include them in the original order, but now I have a backup skimmer and heater which I should probably have anyway.
I think there is an opening for another entrant into this space. The ordering process would be more like ordering a Dell computer. You get the standard components at the base price, but can add additional components for more money. On idea would be to select a bunch of specific animals or maybe general types and tank builder wizard would recommend specific upgrades. I think it would be best if the vendor did not also sell it's own components, but instead offered a wider range of options.
Of course, this would not be cheaper than the RSM. It would be more expensive. The margins would not be as good either, but if you could do the volume to cover costs, you might just stay in business.
I agree 100%, and I like the Dell PC approach idea! Order it stock or order it custom.
I like that idea too , then I could order my RSM 250 with a sicce pump
Let see .... who the mathematician, if one hydor pump causes overheating and takes a year to fix, how many years does it take to debug, X number of variables
j/k
, then I could order my RSM 250 with a sicce pump
Let see .... who the mathematician, if one hydor pump causes overheating and takes a year to fix, how many years does it take to debug, X number of variables