HELP! How long can i go without flow or filtration (chemiclean)

Wet Nerd

Member
So the guy at my lfs said to not use filtration while using chemiclean for 2 days (when chemiclean is done working.) So i was turning off my filter on my biocube 29 when i realized that the filter and air pumps are connected! So then i asked myself about if my fish will die without flow (I also have a torch coral and some glove coral and a kenya tree frag.) 16 pounds porous live rock, 3 snails, a hermit, 7 fish, 2 fire shrimp, a candy cane pistol. Btw the 7 fish are not fully grown so I am not overstocked and they are all nano fish. I will be removing one when they get too big. (Off topic but whenever i ask a question people go "OMG YOU CAN ONLY HAVE 1 FISH IN A BIOCUBE 29 AND YOU NEED 1000 POUNDS OF LIVE ROCK LEAVE THE HOBBY. My trates just spiked because i returned my skimmer, thinking it was not working when it was. (40 ppm right now, was 10 before)

tldr how long can i go without pumps, and are the biocube airstones connected to the filter and pump? Will i run out of oxygen?
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
The best recommendation I can make is don't use Chemiclean in the first place. This is used to "treat" red slime "algae". It is actually a Cyanobacteria. The product does work, but unless you fix the actual problems with your system and get nitrates and phosphates down, all you will do is replace one problem algae with another one.

If you are still going to use the product, keep your filtration system running but remove all chemical media such as carbon. GFO and so on. In other words you want the circulation but not the chemical filtration.

"Btw the 7 fish are not fully grown so I am not overstocked and they are all nano fish."

I'm not trying to beat up on you but your are way overstocked. By the time you add live rock and possibly a sand bed that 29 gal tank is holding about 23 gal for water. In a SW system you want about 1 inch of fish per 5 gal of water. So your tank should have about 4 1/2 inches of fish total. Even a nano fish is going to be 1 1/2 to 2 inches. With 7 fish, your at over 10 inches of fish, More than twice what you should have.

This is also demonstrated by the high nitrate reading your getting and algae problems since you want to use Chemiclean.
 

chipmunkofdoom2

Well-Known Member
Good advice from Dave. Without a long term nutrient remediation strategy, Chemiclean will simply kick the can down the road, metaphorically speaking.

...(Off topic but whenever i ask a question people go "OMG YOU CAN ONLY HAVE 1 FISH IN A BIOCUBE 29 AND YOU NEED 1000 POUNDS OF LIVE ROCK LEAVE THE HOBBY.

There are reasons most seasoned hobbyists say both of these statements. First about the stock levels... because saltwater fish require more space than their freshwater relatives, and because nutrient control is much more difficult in reef tanks, having a low bioload is key to long term success. Second, regarding the live rock... since one of the greatest filtration methods we have available in our tank is live rock, very generally speaking, the more the better. The tanks that experience long term success are generally the ones that have higher quantities of rock.

Notice I said "long term success" with both these explanations. Anything can be successful in this hobby in the short term, but the long term tanks usually all share a few things in common. The reason that you've heard these responses before, and you're continuing to hear them, is because most hobbyists have made the same mistakes before, and we know how it ends (hint: not well). Experienced reefers point out that you have too many fish because they have failed doing what you've done. It's not appropriate for anyone to be rude or hostile about it, but you can expect to hear these same things over and over again. The tanks that last the longest and look the greatest all adhere to a set of best practices, two of which include low bioloads and large quantities of live rock.

You're free to do what you please, but just know that we don't suggest that you only have one fish because we derive some sort of sick pleasure from lying to strangers about how many fish a tank can maintain. And we don't tell hobbyists to buy copious amounts of live rock because we like tricking people into wasting money. We're simply trying to help by telling you what the core principles of the hobby are so you can have the greatest chance of success. If you don't wish to follow best practices, that's your business, just be prepared to hear about it a lot.
 

nanoreefing4fun

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
is because most hobbyists have made the same mistakes before,

one lesson I think we have all learned, is lfs (local fish stores) often don't give the best advise...

Here is a post the owner of RS Travis Staut wrote... along these same lines ^ hope this helps

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/10kfriendsart_.htm

I have an admission to make: I've only been keeping reefs for a few months. Yet, in this short amount of time, I have managed to acquire an amazing amount of knowledge about reef systems, which would have usually taken years of experience, learning and (gasp!) trial and error.

What's my not-so-secret weapon? I draw upon the collective knowledge of literally thousands of reefkeepers of all levels of experience and expertise every day. And you can, too.

The Internet is well-established as one of the best sources of information- and misinformation- in the world. So, what are the best ways to use the Internet? Let's say you want to find out about the suitability of a gorgeous coral you've come across- for example, a Heliofungia species.

Certainly, you can search the entire Internet and sift through thousands of bad links, outdated information and personal web pages. However, I prefer to hit the forums (see table 2). These diverse communities are the keys to everything you will ever want to know about our hobby, now and in the future. Breakthroughs are made often in this wonderful pastime, and being on the cutting edge will allow you to use the best possible methods available, at all times. Following are ways to make the most of these valuable forums.

It's Easier Than It Looks.

Those new to discussion forums may be overwhelmed: Links everywhere! How does it work? You really only need to know four things to get started: point, click, search and your web browsers back button. The rest will come in time. And no, you cant break anything.

Search Is Your Friend.

Upon completing a simple registration form, you'll be able to post your question to the reefing community. Don't do it! Not yet, at least. Instead, find in small print somewhere on the main forum page the word Search Your new best friend. Click it. Now, type in Heliofungia. Surprise! You've probably just found at least ten to twenty Threads (discussion topics) either about, or at least mentioning, this gorgeous cnidarian. Read them all. You'll most likely find the answers to your questions within, and save yourself the time of asking and waiting for replies. More importantly, you've saved everyone else from having to type the same answer they've already been kind enough to give, possibly several times. The regular members will appreciate your having looked. Many questions, such as do I really need a protein skimmer and Is silica sand okay to use even go totally ignored by these communities, because quite frankly they've given the answer dozens of times, are bored of the discussion, and know for a fact you have-not done your homework before asking.

Okay, NOW You Can Ask.

Didn't find the answer you were looking for? Now's your chance to pose the question to your community. If you've searched and still have-not found your answer, you're doing everyone a favor by asking now. The regulars will enjoy the conversation while possibly learning something new. People will share their knowledge. And future members will find your thread upon searching. This is the essence and beauty of the discussion community.

Learning Who The Players Are.

Soon enough, you'll begin browsing all of the topics, finding ones that interest you and picking up knowledge just for the sake of learning. When you encounter a reply from someone who is obviously well-informed, take a look at their user name and how many posts they've logged, usually to the left of their message. Learn whoops been around for a while, who always gives helpful answers, and yes, learn who doesn't know what he's talking about. Anyone can post, and it's up to you to figure out which advice to act upon.

Let The Majority Rule. Usually.

Not a steadfast rule, but overall a good way to go. If three people say Heliofungia (capitalized) are easy to keep and twenty-seven say they're difficult and time-consuming, listen to the majority. Some people get lucky. Some people have an above-average system. Some people proudly post success stories days before their prized Heliofungia recede and die. The majority of people don't, so listen to them.

Follow The Links.

One great forum leads to another, and before you know it you'll have several well-populated forums from which to choose. Use them all. Following the same above rules, do a similar search for Heliofungia on three or four of the forums. See what the majority say. Record or make a mental note of an insightful tip someone mentions for keeping them healthy. Follow more links. Read the articles, visit the web sites, and please, shop the sponsors.

Browse, Browse, Browse!

Now that you've found the answer you're looking for, ites time to learn all kinds of stuff you didn't even know you wanted to know. What are some hardier types of Caulerpa? How often should you dose phytoplankton and what is the best brand? How can you build your own calcium reactor? Can you keep a 55-gallon tank on the second floor of your house? Who are some good online coral vendors? The answers are all there, and the more you read, the more you learn.

Contribute.

Don't be shy. As you acquire knowledge, share it. That's what the forums are all about. So, when the next unknowing soul comes along and posts the topic, Are Heliofungia easy to keep you can share what you've learned. You can point them to a search, link to the existing topics, or just tell them what you know. It'll be fun, I promise.

Find Your Home.

You'll discover a couple of huge forums with thousands of members, paid experts and hundreds of new topics every day. Priceless sources of information, but the community aspect often gets lost in the grandness of it all. There are, however, smaller more close-knit discussion sites with a few dedicated resident experts and many others of varying levels. I have chosen one of these smaller sites as my home, the place where I read and post most actively. I search this site first, and if I don't find my answer, I go search the big guys. I know the people on my site I know who I can trust, who's always good for a laugh, and who can benefit from my knowledge. When I feel like doing some serious reading, I hit the big guys for a while and take what I've learned back to my home to share with the others. My home is listed in table 2, and you're all invited to stop by any time.

In conclusion, by participating in the online reefkeeping community, there is no end to what you can learn both retroactively by searching and over time by staying current as the technology and common knowledge of reefkeeping change. It's a beautiful coral, by the way, the Heliofungia. You really should look into it.

TS
 

Oxylebius

Well-Known Member
Both the answers provided above are spot on. You will find that on our forum people seldom become hostile to others (we strive to be a friendly forum), we instead try to provide a little more reasoning behind the statements that are given. And we don't want to drive you off the forum, instead we hope that you will return to ask additional questions and in time share your knowledge, experience, and opinions with others as well.

I'd also recommend not using any product to try to get rid of algae, but instead try to find the source of the issue that is causing the high nitrates and phosphates which is what is fueling your algae issue. Otherwise you will find that the same algae problem (or a different species of algae) will just come back in time due to the nitrates and phosphates being high.

As was already mentioned, having a large bioload can be a reason for higher nitrates and phosphates. Another source is overfeeding, which you can try to cut back on and make sure no uneaten food is falling to the bottom of the tank. Another option is adding more live rock for bio-filtration and you can also add some GFO as well. And make sure you skimmer is working efficiently, as it is good at pulling organics out of the water. With cyano it is also recommended to try to take large chunks out of the tank while siphoning the sand and doing water changes weekly. Use RODI water when doing weekly water changes. And there are some CUC that have been known to eat cyano, so you can try to get a hold of those species (Clibanarius tricolor and Paguristes cadenati - in my experience they did eat cyano, but not exclusively).

If this doesn't make a difference in two months time. Then perhaps you need to limit the amount of fish you have in the tank.
 

PCDS

Active Member
I've had to accept the fact that the bio load in my main tank is too high and that I have to say good bye to some. I spent most of today trying to catch a fish that was less than an inch long when I bought it but grew 5 inches in the first year! I am also guilty of the over feeding as well.

I'm also guilty of trying quick fixes some advised by my LFS- none worked and some made the situation worse.
I hope I have learned from my mistakes and would try to spare someone new to the hobby from all the trouble these mistakes caused me including the sadness when you lose lovely fish.

I had a major algae problem just over a year ago. What got it under control was weekly water changes and a new stock of turbo snails.
I hope things work out for you soon. Take care.
 

Therapy

Active Member
Chemiclean is designed to be used with a skimmer. Although have your hand on the skimmer settings when using it. It will INSTANTLY boil over all over the place! Without the skimmer seems futile. All of the "bad stuff" just stays suspended in the water. If you already dumped it in the beg, borrow or steal ANY sort of skimmer that you can. Even a Seaclone. (Cringe).
That being said, if you can't at LEAST leave a powerhead running to circulate. If you don't have one get one they're cheap.
ANd don't forget a waterchange or two. Chemiclean as prescribed won't help much.

Tom
 
Just a note..
I bought a rsm250 and began cycling. Did mostly everything by the book, etc. had an issue getting nitrates down, but noticed a simultaneous issue regarding my skimmer not reliably skimming the good stuff (by 'good' I mean of course the foulest smelling nasty of all nasties being skimmed effectively). Tuning the skimmer, playing with water levels etc and finally got good skimmate off.
Nitrates are zero.
Could be coincidence but it makes sense considering the sheer volume of proteinacious crap this skimmer gets out of my tank


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