Help I need sound advice.

[Grasspicker]

Hey folks,

I took my test kit over to my friends 75 gal set up sat. His nitrates were min 100 because the water was red after the test. His Calcium was 300. I gave him some purple up and dosed it and it brought the Calcium up to 400.

Last night he told me that his lion fish looked like something had been nipping at his fins. I went over took my test kits and started the retest. He had done a 10 gal change earlier during the day. The Lion perked up also.

In his tank he has a Lion fish, Clown Fish, Two blue Damsels, an Emperor Angel, Flame Angel, Hippo Tang and a black/white Damsel.

Inverts are Two Hermits, Turbo Snails, Arrow Crab.

I started the test and came back 5 min later. His Nitrates were still in the red. PH was 8.4, Amonia was 0, however his Nitrite level were .50 middle of the card. I looked in the tank and noticed his black/white Damsel dead under a rock in front of the tank. My thought is that the black/white Damsel was messing with the Lion and got killed by the Lion but I cant be sure.

The bigger question is he is going out of town starting today and wants me to see if I can correct the situation.

I was thinking I would start with another 10gal change today and retest. Does anyone have any advice? I really do want to get his tank back in balance. He told me he hasnt done a water change yet. He just adds water as needed. (Ive already told him that that is a no no.) I dont have a lot of specs on the tank. What I know is he has a lot of live rock. Most likely 50 to 60lbs at least. There is a sump in the bottom in the stand. Any advice you can give me here would be appreciated. as for now ill just and wait.

 

[WatchinFish]

thats super high and no doubt the dead fish didnt help with that. all you can do is do a water change but try bumbping it up to about 15 gallons. that should help but if its still high then just give it another water change in a week or so. good luck.

how long has the tank been set up for? and how long has he had the fish in there? any info can help with diognosing the problem. i feel like there has been a boosed in bioload lately where the bacteria didnt have time to adjust + dead fish can really cause some problems.

 

[Grasspicker]

Well his has been set up longer than mine. I sat mine up July 7 this year. I think his has been running for 4 months. Thanks for the quick response. I'll do a 15 gal change. Im gonna have to get him on this site so he can ask questions like this.

 

[BigAl07]

With that bio-load I'm not surprised at your test results at all. Lion-fish are messy eaters and should be calculated as MUCH larger than their actual body mass indicated. Remember that they only actually "process" 10% - 20% of what they eat and the rest comes out as a nice nasty package of poo.

Now one thing to understand is that Nitrate Reduction is in direct proportion to percentage of water change (I should put this in my signature I quote it so much). If you change say 10% of the tank water you'll get 10% Nitrate reduction. That's nothing in the big scheme of things. I personally like to see Nitrates down in the 10 or less range. You can't/shouldn't do a 90% water change but you can do say 50% as long as you MATCH water parameters between new and existing water. Just plan on say 50% today and then another large one say Saturday or so. It's going to take several water changes to get them down. It's also going to take some work to KEEP them down. The tank is heavily loaded to say the least. Honestly I think it's time to re-evaluate the stocking of this tank and try to balance it against what ever he's got for filtration.

You did get the dead fish out right?

 

[BigAl07]

Well his has been set up longer than mine. I sat mine up July 7 this year. I think his has been running for 4 months. Thanks for the quick response. I'll do a 15 gal change. Im gonna have to get him on this site so he can ask questions like this.

At best 15g will only get his Nitrates down to MAYBE 80 or so. That's insanely high. Fish can tolerate high nitrates but that's not high..... that's through the roof.

 

[Grasspicker]

Yea. The dead fish was the first thing I showed him and told him to get out. Any Idea what could have been picking at the Lion's fins. This tank was really structured to hold a lion fish. The other fish are eye candy. The lion is really his only concern although the other ones are very nice.

 

[BigAl07]

What is his filtration system? He needs a stronger Clean Up Crew but with the current stocking that might not work out.. or might be EXPENSIVE to maintain.

Is this a Fish Only? Fish Only With Live Rock? Reef Tank (doubt it's a Reef Tank).

 

[BigAl07]

As for what could be picking it's hard to say but many of those fish (and more than one too) could be doing it. Their long flowing fins are just irresistible to many fish. It's fairly common for many of our fish to pick at such a creature and one reason why they aren't really what I'd call a "Community" type of fish. They are COOL! That's for sure!!

 

[Grasspicker]

Ive not looked at his filtration system that much. Its under the tank in the Cab. It looks like a sump with a biowheel that turns in the bottom. This tank was gave to him. Its a nice looking set up. The lighting is nice as well. Ill look at it more today when I go by there and take some pictures. Maybe that will give you more to go on. Its kinda like shooting in the dark right now for your advice and I understand that. Hopefully the water change will send his levels back toward the right direction.

I will say this. After seeing how high his Nitrates had climed I did test on my tank because I missed a week and didnt do a water change. My Nitrates were on the rise so I did a 5 gal change last nite to it. I have a 29 gal cube for those of you that havent been following. First time ive ever seen my levels out of wack. Water changes are a must imo. Its just a good principle to do it once a week for weekly maint. I will never miss again as long as I can help it.

 

[BigAl07]

It's possible that he also has a build up of "goop" and junk in his and nd along his rock. This could lead to increased Nitrates and a Bio-wheel can also lead to increased Nitrates. If I had to guess I would say too little to infrequent water changes is leading heavy to this. You have to take each system and tweak your methods to what works best for that system. He may just need to re-evaluate what he does and adjust accordingly ONCE the system is back closer to "Normal" levels. Until that time it's Katty bar the door! Time to get dirty and get the system under control.!!

 

[WatchinFish]

i agree with al. just the only thing is to remember that even thogh its a 75 gallon tank there isnt 75 gallons of watewr in there. so if you are planning to do a 50% water change then just accomidate for the water displaced by the rock, sand, etc. but extreamly important is that the ph and temp match before doing so. to be honest i love lion fish but i would never own one.

 

[WatchinFish]

oh and just to let your friend know that a 10 gallon water change for that tank is to little unless he wants to be doing one every week. he should kick it up to 15 and do one i would say about every 2 weeks if he wants ideal water conditions. but thats after its back to normal.

 

[Grasspicker]

Thanks for the advice. Im hoping I can get him under control while he is gone. or at least get him in the general right direction. I should have said something saturday when his Nitrate level hit the roof, and he told me he had never changed the water.

Thanks for all the great input everyone. It helps me to know im going in the right direction with his stuff.

 

[WatchinFish]

never??? wow. sometimes i wonder what people are thinking. lol (peoples thoghts) "um the ocean never changes water so i guess i shouldnt eather". your friend should be happy he has you. lol

 

[BigAl07]

Thanks for the advice. Im hoping I can get him under control while he is gone. or at least get him in the general right direction. I should have said something saturday when his Nitrate level hit the roof, and he told me he had never changed the water.

:help1: :smack: :sinking: beat_dead_horse :tears: :sinking: :cry1:

Never? 4 months and NO water change? Well all I can say is , "Houston... we have a problem down here." It's all about proper husbandry. Invite him to the site so we can help him along. This will make everyone involved a LOT more healthy. It's going to take some understanding and time to learn the "tricks of the trade" but as long as he's still "sucking wind" it's not too late.

 

[lcstorc]

Great advice so far. Water changes and vacuum out the detrius are the most important things. Be sure to blow the gunk off of the rocks before doing the change so you can siphon most of it out. Also look for any sponges etc that could be storing decaying food or other detrius.
One thing a little off track that I have to say is throw away the Purple Up. It can really mess up your calc/alk balance. Test both separately and use a two part additive to bring up whichever is low.
Also if you are not using RO/DI water then start using it. Reduce feedings do decrease the rotting food in the system.

 

[Grasspicker]

I use the purple up in my 29 but only once or twice a week. Ive not had any problems with the levels but I test a lot.

In his defense he thought that he was doing ok because he was replacing water due to evaporation. I think a lot of people make this mistake. I dont see a lot of debris but thats not to say it isnt in there. Ill get to work on it and see what we can do. I dont think its too late but Im alarmed at the situation. I should have talked to him more about his set up and ask if he had been doing water changes. :biker

 

[BigAl07]

Purple Up is NOT your friend at all! It can kick your water params out of whack in short order. It's considered by many to be "Snake Oil in a bottle".

 

[lcstorc]

What levels are you testing?
If not calc, alk and mag you will not see the result in your tests just in the health of the tank.
Top-offs have no relationship with water changes. A water change removes nitrates, detrius etc when you remove the water. When you put the NSW in you are replacing trace minerals the tank needs. Top-offs just replace the water lost due to evaporation to keep the salinity at the same level.

 

[BigAl07]

Lynn I think he's gonna bring his friend over to RS so we can help him out. I don't think he's been advised very well up to this point. At least it's not too late