GFO in relation to Phosphates

[Pool Man]

My 200 has been up since this past Feb. I use both carbon and GFO in seperate BRS reactors along with a 75g sump/ fuge. I get cyano/ red slime bacteria/ and some form of hair algae.. not the blue/green kind.. a much finer kind. I assumed it was a phosphate issue.. Testing using an API Phosphate test showed zero. Had heard this test kits weren't very accurate for low range ppm. Bought a Hanna Phosphate checker.. still reading zero. What gives???

 

[BLAKEJOHN]

Either you did the checker wrong, or of is a high range, or.they aren't worth a crap.either.

I had my PO4 down to .02 and undectectable ntrates but still had an issue with cyano.

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[mcentire1123]

Your algae has used up the phosphates and is using it to grow.Thats why you are getting a reading of zero.

 

[Pool Man]

Your algae has used up the phosphates and is using it to grow.Thats why you are getting a reading of zero.

I've heard this argument before, but I find it hard to believe. If the algae is using it, shouldn't there atleast show up as trace amounts? Is there another direction I should be looking? I just really want to solve this.

 

[PSU4ME]

Try to run some CPE or phosban to take the phosphates out fo the water before the algae can use them......if you see the HA receed then you know it is working?

Why do you think you're getting phosphates, over feeding or something to that effect?

My salifert PO4 kit shows me zero and i am a little suspect - I'm going to buy another kit to validate.

not sure if that was much help but......

 

[steved13]

I've heard this argument before, but I find it hard to believe. If the algae is using it, shouldn't there atleast show up as trace amounts? Is there another direction I should be looking? I just really want to solve this.

I'm with you on your belief. I find it hard to believe, but I'm starting to think it might be true. 0 trates and 0 phates and still some HA. I started the tank with Bio pellets and basically after cycling never had either...but still some HA.

I still think it's more likely something else that we don't test for that just need to leach out over time. Since the algaes seem to have favorite spots, if it is trates and/or phates, maybe the algae is sort of sucking it out of the rock, so it doesn't make it to the water column?

You're probably aware, but usually cyano is an indicator of more flow needed in that area.

 

[PSU4ME]

I bought dead rock and was told that the source of my algae was the phates/trates leaking out of the rock so Steve may be on to something here. I have 1 rock in my tank that turns into a HA farm every now and then.

 

[Pool Man]

I did use 100+ lbs of dry pukani rock, but the HA grows on the back glass as oppose to the rock. I do get cyano on them still, after 8 months I would hope I'd be over this. This is the first time setting up a tank with dry rock.. All my others would be looking great (even though young) by this time. Is this to be expected using large amounts of dry rock?

 

[Frankie]

OK, I'll take a stab at this one.

Yes, there is phosphates in your tank. No matter how much GFO or carbon you run it will always be in there. Every time you feed the fish you are adding p04. That is not the only source either. What kind of container are you mixing your salt in? Brut trash cans leach p04. So your water is contaminated with water changes even.

As for testing and getting zero, none of the p04 test kits available to the average hobbyist can tell you weather your at zero or not. Shell out some bucks for a Hatch kit and you will really see what is in your water.

Do you need to buy such expensive test kits? No. We all can live with the results of an API kit. They work just fine for our hobby. The problem is what is going on in your system. Do you run a ATS or refugium? These add p04 if not properly setup and maintained. Detritus is your usual main culprit. Flow is the reason why your not removing it. And the overflow system may not be efficient enough to bring it to your filtration.

So it is concentrating in your display tank and the algae are having a field day.


Yes, algae will uptake making it look as if your water is spot on with nitrates and p04 but if you are having an outbreak there is something wrong with your system and husbandry.

 

[Pool Man]

Yes, Something wrong with your system and husbandry.

That's why I'm here. So, p04 is diffenately my problem.. excess amounts being introduced through some form or fashion? What can I do to improve my husbandry skills and/ or set-up? I can write out my entire routine in reguards to maintence, feeding, Livestock, equiptment, ect... Please ask! I'm sure you don't need me to write a book... but what's your thoughts on what's going on and I'll do my best to correct them or minimize thier negative effects.
You mentioned feeding.
I feed your typical Ocean Nutrition flakes, switched up daily between Formula 1, 2 and Prime Reef. Once per week I'll feed thawed Mysis & Krill (rinsed & strained). I keep Nori for the Tangs, on occassion I'll soak it in Selcon. They're not touching the HA. I'll cut back to feeding every other day... they are all fat and healthy.
W/C's?
My entire system volume is around 250g. I change out 30g every two weeks. I alternate between Reef Crystals and Coral Pro when buckets get empty. Currently on a Reef Crystals Bucket. Yes.. you guessed it. 32g Brute mixing tote! I do have a Food Grade 55g polypropylene drum. I used it to store RO/DI. Havn't used it in sometime though. Should I start using this for SW mix? Source water is from a 5 stage RO/DI unit. Current TDS 003. My DI resin is about half spent. I have new DI resin, just didn't know at what point to change it out.. 005?
Flow..
The tank is a 96w x 24d x20t room divider style with overflows on the ends. Return pumps are moving around 1700gph with head-loss. Koralia Evo 1400 x2, Koralia Evo 1050 and older K4 set-up on RKE wave function (was trying for gyre effect), rock work consist of two islands. In general, 3-4" off the back wall.
I know I'm throwing alot out there, questions and info wise, but I DO want to improve my hubandry skills and Reef. I've enjoyed alot of success with other Reef Tanks and want to with this one as well. Any thoughts or suggestions are greatly appriciated. I'll post some pics after the lights come on.. sometimes pics are worth a thousand words.

 

[BLAKEJOHN]

Sound like your doing things right.

I would increase the wc to 30 per week and the Di is spent at 001.

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[Pool Man]

Sound like your doing things right.

I would increase the wc to 30 per week and the Di is spent at 001.

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DI resin changed 000 TDS! (003 between RO and DI) Scrapping the SW I made yesterday as a precaution. Will do a 30g WC this evening.

 

[Pool Man]

HA on back glass

Cyano on rock

Full Tank Shot

Side Shot

Fuge section of 75g Sump/fuge (over ran with pods)

Sorry about the picture quality (Iphone)
I hope seeing these might help.

 

[Pool Man]

changed my mind

 

[Boomer]

've heard this argument before, but I find it hard to believe. If the algae is using it, shouldn't there atleast show up as trace amounts? Is there another direction I should be looking? I just really want to solve this.


Because the PO4 is being sucked up as fast as it is produced. On coral reefs the PO4 is ~ 0.0002 ppm. The other issue is Organic phosphate which your test kit can not test for. Cyano and some algae's can extra PO4 form Organic -P extracellularly. Organic -P can be quite high in reef tanks. Cyano can also pull bound PO4 right of sand or gravel.

 

[Woody]

Is there a possibility that your HA is Bryopsis? If so increasing magnesium to over 1500 ppm helps (particulalry with Kent Tech M for some reason). For the Cycano, bulb spectrum/intensity and flow are usually the "blamed" culprits. In one of my tanks changing out the carbon always helps with cyano but not as much so with my other. I have a less "blue" spectrum on the one that is resistant to fresh carbon so it is probably a combination, as most things are.