Adding / Breeding artemia brine shrimp EGGS to the sump

solpete

Member
Ive been searching an answer to the idea of breeding artemia in the sump. Ive read multiple posts about this being such a bad idea because of pollution and that they wont survive. I havent read one thread about it in a positive way. Therefore I am going to try this myself unless someone can give me one good reason not to.

The method I want to use is the following:
Add brine shrimp eggs to the sump and let them cultivate

I may conclude what I've read so far:
"Brine shrimp hatch within 15-40 hours"
"Brine shrimp hatch and survive at a wide range of salinity levels between 25–250 g/L" .... Well isnt that perfect?
"The reason brine shrimp are found in extremely salty lakes is that there are no predators, but they do well at sub-reef salinity levels."
"The egg-shells may get stuck in the fishes digestion system causing issues". (this sounds like a ******* joke to me and I dont believe it one second)
"The eggs will get stuck in filters and the skimmer thus polluting everything". (I doubt this... I am feeding huge amounts of food and my ammonia levels are low. The energy content of 1/2 of a teaspoon of brine shrimp eggs is negligible compared to what I feed)
"The brine shrimp will die from the pumps". (no they wont)
"Artemia eggs contain reef-dangerous bacteria". (Really?? Can someone clarify?)
"Brine shrimp are really dirty animals and they wont survive the low nutrition levels in a reef tank". (Blah...)

Im off to the fish store to buy 30 ml of artemia eggs for $17 which is the price in my country. Then Im going to add some to the sump. If 1/10th hatches then Im a happy camper.
 

solpete

Member
Ok ive hadded half a teaspoon to the sump. This time tomorrow I should be able to see artemia if I shut down all the pumps :)
 

Mike Johnson

Well-Known Member
Well, it seems you're determined. How are you going to keep them from just being spread through the system? Or staying in the sump? Have you considered doing it the traditional way? A 2 liter bottle, an air pump, and a light bulb?
 

solpete

Member
Well, it seems you're determined. How are you going to keep them from just being spread through the system? Or staying in the sump? Have you considered doing it the traditional way? A 2 liter bottle, an air pump, and a light bulb?

I want them to be spread through the system. Since they spawn so quickly I think that a few percent of them will spawn in the sump. Then they'll hopefully get caught in the return pump and into the DT. I did consider the traditional way - I just wanted to try this. My DT has a chamber behind the wall which serves no purpose (much like RSM but I got a separate sump), I hope that it can become a "refuge" for the spawning artemia and i've put the sump return hose in there. There are a few ways out into the DT from the stern.

I am monitoring the ammonia level digitally and I will see if the eggs have an effect the next few days. The total mass of all eggs is so tiny I can't imagine it will.... Current ammonia level is 0.008 ppm
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
Brine shrimp take a couple of weeks to grow out and get to reproductive size. To do this they must be fed, and your not going to be able to do this in the sump of your reef system. In effect, your simply just making a mess of your reef. Most of the items you quoted in your original post are quite true, and you should believe them. If you doubt me, wait the "15-40 hours" and look. I would be very surprised if you see any at all. Then try the traditional methods and see if your get some real results.

As for ammonia, you really should have a reading of 0. If your getting any reading at all indicated, and it's not due to a calibration error on the digital system your using, you have an over loaded system or something dead in it.
 

solpete

Member
DaveK, why do you think that I would mess up my system? Why wouldnt they be fed - I feed my own mixed food which contains everything from micrometer sized particles to 1 cm - Ive heard that people even give them a bit of milk. Im sure they'll be perfectly allright with my feeding. And as for ammonia, why should I be getting a reading of 0 ppm when in fact natural ocean water contains 0.01-0.1 ppm of Ammonia. My ammonia level is less than that at 0.005 ppm currently. Also reefkeeping dot com suggest Ammonia less than 0.1 ppm. I don't agree with you :)

I took some video today and just put it on youtube, have a look [video=youtube;0HjXB4BwRaQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HjXB4BwRaQ[/video].

cheers !

Brine shrimp take a couple of weeks to grow out and get to reproductive size. To do this they must be fed, and your not going to be able to do this in the sump of your reef system. In effect, your simply just making a mess of your reef. Most of the items you quoted in your original post are quite true, and you should believe them. If you doubt me, wait the "15-40 hours" and look. I would be very surprised if you see any at all. Then try the traditional methods and see if your get some real results.

As for ammonia, you really should have a reading of 0. If your getting any reading at all indicated, and it's not due to a calibration error on the digital system your using, you have an over loaded system or something dead in it.
 

ddelozier

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
RS Ambassador
Brine shrimp feed on Phyto Plankton. They Dont last long in a reef environment for two reasons, A they are food to almost anything that can see them, and B they starve. We strive to keep the water conditions in our reef tanks Prestine, with crystal clear water. If you add Brine shrimp eggs to your sump, you will indeed get baby brine shrimp to hatch and spread throughout your system....for about 2-3 days, by then they'll either starve or be eaten. Those that seek to raise brine to full maturity have to do a seperate culture of Green water(AKA Phyto plankton bloom). Even critters as small as brine require food, and its not available in a reef tank without causing more problems than its worth to rais them to maturity. Adding eggs to provide food is fine, just dont expect to have an overgrown sea monkey farm after 3 days.
 

solpete

Member
My intention is not to grow brine to full maturity, just add some for fun and food. So them being eaten before three days is perfect. I don't strive after crystal clear water, but I doubt adding eggs will cloud it visibly at all. Wild brine shrimp eat microscopic planktonic algae. Cultured brine shrimp can also be fed particulate foods including yeast, wheat flour, soybean powder or egg yolk.

From another page:

Brine shrimp are non-selective filter feeders (meaning they're not fussy) and can be fed a wide range of foods, including but not limited to Liquidfry brand or similar fry food, yeast, whey, wheat flour, soybean powder, fish meal and egg yolk. The criteria for suitable foods is small, easily digestible particles which do not dissolve in water (for example, powdered milk won't work). Most importantly, do not over-feed them!


In other words. I think they love the food I give or the algae already present :)
 

ddelozier

Well-Known Member
PREMIUM
RS Ambassador
Seems you've already decided to do it. Yes Brine are scavangers, but adding any of those things, yeast, flower or egg yolk to your tank will cause Much larger issues. You will end up with a bacterial bloom that will cause headaches, but hey if u dont believe me, go for it. Im not saying it cant be done, im saying categoracally, that trying to raise to maturity the brine in a DT setting will be a nightmare in the making. If all u want to do is add some food, go for it. If you add anything to feed the brine, the brine wont be the only thing feasting and growing. Take pictures. Post LOTS OF PICTURES of the whole process. If you want to be right at all costs, great. Folks here arent trying to prevent you from doing anything u really want to do, they're offering the voice of experience of "if its done incorrectly, this is the results". I've done what others said couldnt be done before. It can be done. Ive put a BTA in a tank less than 90 days out of cycling and had it do fine. Can it be done, yes. Should it be done, No. When people develop a "general Rule" its not guaranteed that you'll get those results 100% of the time. Thats just the result seen more often than not.
 

solpete

Member
I won't add anything for the brine shrimp. They'll have to compete with other organisms for the food present :) And, again, if a few brine shrimp grows to maturity then fine - but it isn't what I aim for here. I can add that I have an oversized skimmer (fauna marin ultraskim 2). My ammonia level has just dropped from yesterdays 0.008 to 0.001 despite adding the shrimp yesterday. All tanks are different, I just really wanted to try this out and I couldnt find any arguments not to (except the dangerous bacteria rumour which I havent found any info on). If this works out on me ill continue adding the eggs since its much simpler than growing in a pet-bottle :)


Seems you've already decided to do it. Yes Brine are scavangers, but adding any of those things, yeast, flower or egg yolk to your tank will cause Much larger issues. You will end up with a bacterial bloom that will cause headaches, but hey if u dont believe me, go for it. Im not saying it cant be done, im saying categoracally, that trying to raise to maturity the brine in a DT setting will be a nightmare in the making. If all u want to do is add some food, go for it. If you add anything to feed the brine, the brine wont be the only thing feasting and growing. Take pictures. Post LOTS OF PICTURES of the whole process. If you want to be right at all costs, great. Folks here arent trying to prevent you from doing anything u really want to do, they're offering the voice of experience of "if its done incorrectly, this is the results". I've done what others said couldnt be done before. It can be done. Ive put a BTA in a tank less than 90 days out of cycling and had it do fine. Can it be done, yes. Should it be done, No. When people develop a "general Rule" its not guaranteed that you'll get those results 100% of the time. Thats just the result seen more often than not.
 

timlyg

New Member
@solpete, it's been 9 years now, can you give me some 411 on this? I am also thinking about using my sump/refugium to do some copepods, brine shrimp culture.
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
@solpete, it's been 9 years now, can you give me some 411 on this? I am also thinking about using my sump/refugium to do some copepods, brine shrimp culture.
This is a very old thread so I doubt you'll hear from the OP.

Using a sump for copepods is a good idea, some live rock rubble or very course samd on the bottom make an idea home for them. If you have some live rock in the system, you shouls see some copepods in the refugium in a few weeks. If not you can buy some to seed the area.

If you want to culture brine shrimp, do that in a separate container and add the live brine shrimp to the main tank for the fish to eat. I do not recommend adding brine shrimp eggs to the refugium, since the hatched egg cases get all over, and are not good for fish to eat. Brine shrimp are also mostly free swimming so they will not tent to stay in the refucium and reproduce. They get taken in by the return pump. Copepods tend to live in the ruck and substrata, so they tend to stay put.
 

timlyg

New Member
This is a very old thread so I doubt you'll hear from the OP.

Using a sump for copepods is a good idea, some live rock rubble or very course samd on the bottom make an idea home for them. If you have some live rock in the system, you shouls see some copepods in the refugium in a few weeks. If not you can buy some to seed the area.

If you want to culture brine shrimp, do that in a separate container and add the live brine shrimp to the main tank for the fish to eat. I do not recommend adding brine shrimp eggs to the refugium, since the hatched egg cases get all over, and are not good for fish to eat. Brine shrimp are also mostly free swimming so they will not tent to stay in the refucium and reproduce. They get taken in by the return pump. Copepods tend to live in the ruck and substrata, so they tend to stay put.
Thank you very much for responding, DaveK. Thought it was a long shot to get any, since this thread is old. I supposed the OP has given up and gone fresh water :D

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to write this. It is very helpful. I guess I'll go with just copepods. Don't have any liverock in my sump, but I've seen some live action going on: i.e. Munnid Isopods, and some other creatures about the same size as the isopods but slower, more wormlike (not flatform), don't know what they are. Perhaps I'll get the liverocks in them then, small ones, perhaps, since I'm running out of space there with all the refugium growing and filter bags in there.

My only question left I guess is, with the copepods populating in my sump, do I just assume that the return pump will feed them to my fish or should I actually go collect them in my sump and feed my fish myself?

Thanks again man!!!
 
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