Tank refresh plan

melvis

Well-Known Member
Hi all

I've finally decided that the time has come to give my sad RSM C130 a much needed refresh. Having struggled with red turf algae for as long as I can remember, I've got to the point where I can no longer bear to look at the tank in its sorry state and have decided that a fairly major refresh is needed in order to prevent a tank tear down and exit from the hobby.

Firstly, I plan a fairly rigorous cleaning of the sand bed (where I can reach that is) to remove detritus build up. I think this may be adding to my nitrate/phosphate problems and feeding the red turf, although tests show 0-low numbers. Once done, I'll add some Mexican Turbo's to boost my Tuxedo Urchin's efforts to rid the tank of this most persistent algae.

If I make head way with the above, I plan to:

Part 1 – removal
1. Purchase 133 litre storage container (probably this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00HAH4S8Q/)
2. Rinse out with RODI water and dry naturally
3. Fill with 50 litres of current aquarium water
4. Remove corals/live rock/fish and place in storage container
5. Remove MP10 (already soaked in vinegar and free of coraline) and install in storage container
6. Remove skimmer and install in storage container
7. Place spare heater and thermometer in storage container
8. Monitor fish regularly

Part 2 – cleaning
1. Clean (with fresh RODI water and/or white vinegar);
a. Detachable surface skimmer
b. Media rack
c. Circulation pump and tubing
d. Pump outlet nozzle
e. Fixed plastic surround of surface skimmer
f. Surface water cooling fan unit
g. Egg crate cage that holds skimmer
h. Rear sump of any detritus​
2. Cabinet and hood (inside and out)
3. Scrape glass and edges
4. Vacuum the sand – tying muslin around the tube so that it catches all the detritus and keeps the water in a separate container
5. Remove the largest piece of live rock from storage container and remove clumps of red bubble algae

Part 3 – re-aquascaping
1. Using largest piece of live rock, set about forming a base for the new structure before using putty to form a new scape that inverts the rock, giving me more space for SPS corals at the top
2. Create two separate islands for the current Pulsing Xenia and future GSP
3. Break up some live rock and mount the Duncan and Trumpet corals to a sturdier base, placing back into the storage container

Part 4 – refill
1. Make up some fresh RODI and mix some saltwater (probably before part 3 so time for it to mix)
2. Refill tank with newly mixed (and matched) saltwater
3. Remove corals from storage container, placing in separate container with small amount of water, before dipping, then drip acclimation and placing in display tank
4. Relocate corals into more appropriate places, using putty where needed
5. Repeat step 3 but with fish (except for coral dip)
6. Refit MP10 into display tank
7. Clean skimmer thoroughly, including body and pump before refitting into display tank
8. Crack open a beer (or seven) and sit, fingers crossed, making sure all is ok

Some quick questions I can think of:

1. Do I need to drill a few holes in the storage container lid?
2. Can the water syphoned during the sand vacuuming be reused?
3. Will straight RODI water be ok to spray onto live rock when removing red bubble algae etc or will I kill things off?
4. Am I missing anything or is there anything likely to cause me problems, like a mini-cycle etc?

Any advice/comments/criticisms gratefully received. I don't want to leave the hobby and really want to get the tank where it deserves to really be after 2.5 years.

Cheers
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
This is a very drastic action your planning. Now I can understand how frustrating cyano outbreaks can be, and how your tank can look like a giant algae farm. However, let's check out some things first. Such drastic action is seldom needed, and even if you do all that, if you don't correct the actual problems, you'll soon have another bumper crop of unwanted algae. Also, things may not be as they seem. What looks like a disaster can sometimes be easily corrected.

Why not post a few picts of the tank, and of the filtration system? Then we'll talk about it. You need not worry about your tank looking bad, just about everyone has had their tank look a mess at one time or another.
 

Pat24601

Well-Known Member
To me, to some extent this depends on his you feel about it.

While I never followed through on it, I thought many times about basically doing a tear down and rebuild. There were just some things I would have done differently had I understood where my preferences would go from the start.

In other words, I thought it would be fun to start over and be able to learn from my original experiences.

If you think this would be fun and get you where you want to go, I'd say go for it.

However, if you really think this is a giant pain and you are just trying to clean up your tank, I'd totally take DaveK up on his offer to help out with some less dramatic action. That man knows his stuff and he's helping me with my new set up even. So, I think if he understands what your real goals are, he can help you get there as painlessly as possible.

Just reading your post, it does sound to me like you want to do a pretty major rescape as well, though.

As far as tanks being a mess, yeah we've all been there. I've had bryopsis, green bubble algae, aiptasia, cyano, green hair algae, and other stuff I'm sure I'm forgetting. So, it happens to all of us.
 

melvis

Well-Known Member
Thanks Dave and Pat, really appreciate the advice and offer of help. You guys rock!

I know what I've planned is drastic and tbh, I'm not fussed about the level of work required to do it (I've got some spare time I want to use constructively lol), but I do want to minimise stress on any fish/corals in doing it etc.

I guess I was hoping that in doing this, I would be able to improve the overall look (scape) but more importantly, get detritus and params under control and address the root causes. I've always struggled with Alk but that seems to be holding at the mo (albeit relatively high at 12dkh).

I have a gut feeling that the detritus build up is causing high nitrate levels that aren't showing up on tests, as the red turf algae and cyano on top are feeding from that. The plan is to possibly add another MP10 or smaller powerhead in future, to keep this circulated.

My new RODI unit arrived yesterday so I'll be getting that ready hopefully later today. My RO water going in before had a TDS of about 015 so that may have also been adding to my woes.

I'll get some newer pics taken a bit later this morning and post them. In the meantime, some info on the setup:
  • RSM C130, running standard heater and circulation pump
  • MP10 for increased flow, currently set on nutrient transfer mode
  • Tunze 9001 skimmer, mounted in custom egg crate rack to facilitate constant water level
  • RSM media rack, running CPE on bottom, Purigen on lower middle, Phosnet on upper middle (currently) and filter floss on top - all due to be changed this weekend
  • Lighting is courtesy of Steve's LEDs, 1.5 hour sunrise/sunset (need to check times as recently changed in bid to curb RTA)
Other info:
  • Sand bed has large build up of detritus underneath the main 'dumped look' scape
  • RTA covers large swathes of the live rock
  • Cyano now back on top of RTA for added measure lol
  • Coral growth is very slow and I've lost some over the past year
  • Fish are healthy and eating well
From last week, not the best pic though:
0BFD28CF-65BC-425E-B305-DC09C1FDDC11_zpso13pggvb.jpg


The RTA on the base bit of live rock - although currently being eaten by the Tux.
IMG_4195_zpszopfypp7.jpg

IMG_4195_zpszopfypp7.jpg
 

melvis

Well-Known Member
OK guys, some other photos.

Cyano growing on top off the red turf algae
IMG_4201_zps595re4ou.jpg


Red turf algae, although being eaten by Tux at the moment
IMG_4202_zpsoqidgll6.jpg


Detritus under the scape (not the best pic)
IMG_4203_zpshhrrc2ow.jpg


FTS
IMG_4204_zpsdn6efgmt.jpg


Cyano spreading up back wall
IMG_4205_zpszl9dxetk.jpg


Return nozzle in desperate need of a clean
IMG_4206_zpstgqdartq.jpg


Forget the name of this but red turf growing through and cyano on top
IMG_4208_zpsmjejdl9g.jpg


I know it probably doesn't look as bad, but the red turf really dulls it all down and I don't want to lose any more corals. Plus, the aquascape is just plain boring and not doing me any favours in terms of flow around the tank.

Thanks guys!
 

nanoreefing4fun

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
Best of luck with the re-build Martin ! good advise from all ^ the cyano, I think you could get rid of the red turf algae , is a real booger and hard to whip... and I can see where it could cause one to do a major re-start.

Sure everyone will help you with whatever questions you have, your tank is still very pretty.
 

melvis

Well-Known Member
Thanks Glenn, I wouldn't call it pretty though! lol. Still unsure on approach but whatever happens I need to get things back under control - that's if they ever really have been lol.

Another avenue that might be worth considering is the running of bio pellets to get nitrates under control, with phosnet in the media rack. Maybe that'll starve out the RTA.
 

Pat24601

Well-Known Member
Thanks Glenn, I wouldn't call it pretty though! lol. Still unsure on approach but whatever happens I need to get things back under control - that's if they ever really have been lol.

Another avenue that might be worth considering is the running of bio pellets to get nitrates under control, with phosnet in the media rack. Maybe that'll starve out the RTA.

One of the things I did when my tank was an algae farm (but not with RTA) was do very large weekly water changes (40%) and run phosnet, purigen, and Chema pure elite in my media. I didn't have RTA, though. Just green hair. It also took a couple of months of that to really kill it, if I recall correctly.

I have no idea if that would work for you.

Candidly, I like your rebuild idea because you seem inclined to want to do that anyway and not mind the work. But, I do fear you'll go through all that work and 6 months from now be back where you started, which might make you want to put a hammer through your glass.

@DaveK will know way more than I do.
 

melvis

Well-Known Member
Now my new RODI is plumbed in, I'm ready to make up some water and start hitting the tank with larger water changes in a bid to get things under control. Weirdly though, the water coming out has a TDS of 002 so I think I may need to tweak things a bit, recheck the set up or possibly ditch the first 25litres I've made up. My water going in reads 349. Pressure is good at 70psi.

Right now though I just want to stabilise things and get my salt levels under control. They seem to be dropping relatively quickly. Once sorted, I can introduce some new Mexican Turbo's to hopefully help with mowing the RTA.

All new CPE and Purigen ready to go in, but need to stop at LFS this morning for some new phosnet.

I'm up for doing it Pat - but only if really needed and if it will yield the results I'm hoping it will. I do think that cleaning the substrate properly will help and if the nitrates here are feeding the RTA (as they're not showing up on test kits), then getting rid of this may help starve it out - combined with getting all other levels in check and maintaining a bit more consistency.

I'm also thinking of rigging up my STC1000 temp controller too as I need to replace the water cooling fans, building a panel in the cabinet to hold all the controllers and do some cable management too. Oh, and I'm going to replace the corner edges of the hood trim as they are peeling badly. This will all come a bit later though...
 

Pat24601

Well-Known Member
Now my new RODI is plumbed in, I'm ready to make up some water and start hitting the tank with larger water changes in a bid to get things under control. Weirdly though, the water coming out has a TDS of 002 so I think I may need to tweak things a bit, recheck the set up or possibly ditch the first 25litres I've made up. My water going in reads 349. Pressure is good at 70psi.

Right now though I just want to stabilise things and get my salt levels under control. They seem to be dropping relatively quickly. Once sorted, I can introduce some new Mexican Turbo's to hopefully help with mowing the RTA.

All new CPE and Purigen ready to go in, but need to stop at LFS this morning for some new phosnet.

I'm up for doing it Pat - but only if really needed and if it will yield the results I'm hoping it will. I do think that cleaning the substrate properly will help and if the nitrates here are feeding the RTA (as they're not showing up on test kits), then getting rid of this may help starve it out - combined with getting all other levels in check and maintaining a bit more consistency.

I'm also thinking of rigging up my STC1000 temp controller too as I need to replace the water cooling fans, building a panel in the cabinet to hold all the controllers and do some cable management too. Oh, and I'm going to replace the corner edges of the hood trim as they are peeling badly. This will all come a bit later though...

Sounds good. I think the C-130 must be different than the C-250 because I can't think of any corner edges of hood trim. My hood is just one piece. But, my kids did screw up my trim at the bottom the tank (top of the stand) and so I had to buy a new one from Red Sea. Hopefully, you can do the same. I have a good number to call Amanda in the US, but since you are in UK probably it's not best for you. Let me know if you want it. I just talked to her last week, so it's current.

TDS of 002 does sound strange. Maybe that's your problem? Mine comes out 0. 002 is about where it's at before it goes in the DI. I'm not even sure what you would tweak to improve that. A RODI system seems like it's either set up or it's not. I don't have good advice, but I don't really like your reading.

70 psi is awesome. I usually hover around 40 if I recall correctly, so I don't think it's that.
 

melvis

Well-Known Member
It's around the top edges of the tank Pat (see below). Not sure how or why they've peeled like this though.

IMG_4213_zpsb6f67ney.jpg

IMG_4212_zpsblyl4u7e.jpg


I'll give you a shout if I don't get anywhere with 'ask red sea'. I'm hoping they'll either be able to help out or point me in direction of UK supplier. Thanks though mate.

I'm going to take a look at what the TDS is later when I've made up another batch. If it's 000, then I'll know it was just a case of flushing the preservative off of the membrane etc (well, that's what the manual says lol). Definitely pleased with the pressure.

Picked up some Red Sea Reef Spec Carbon earlier so going to try that as instead of the CPE this time.
 

Pat24601

Well-Known Member
It's around the top edges of the tank Pat (see below). Not sure how or why they've peeled like this though.

IMG_4213_zpsb6f67ney.jpg

IMG_4212_zpsblyl4u7e.jpg


I'll give you a shout if I don't get anywhere with 'ask red sea'. I'm hoping they'll either be able to help out or point me in direction of UK supplier. Thanks though mate.

I'm going to take a look at what the TDS is later when I've made up another batch. If it's 000, then I'll know it was just a case of flushing the preservative off of the membrane etc (well, that's what the manual says lol). Definitely pleased with the pressure.

Picked up some Red Sea Reef Spec Carbon earlier so going to try that as instead of the CPE this time.

Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, mine does have that piece. Seems kind of weird that it peeled. I would have never thought of that.
 

melvis

Well-Known Member
It doesn't exactly spoil the look of an otherwise gorgeous tank Pat lol. Just another line on the list of things that need sorting.
 

Pat24601

Well-Known Member
Dumb question, but are you sure the container you are putting the water in is clean? Wondering if that could be causing the 002.

Also, I wanted to clarify maybe 002 isn't a big deal. I don't really know now that I think of it. Mine is always zero so I've never worried about it.
 

melvis

Well-Known Member
I don't think there's ever a dumb question in this hobby Pat, but it is a good one. I tested RODI output first in a cup and it was showing 000, so that's a good point. The container was rinsed through but I'll check it all again just in case.
 

melvis

Well-Known Member
Productive morning as I set the plan in motion - well, sort of. I've decided to put the restructure of the live rock (and therefore removing all inhabitants) on temporary hold, focusing on getting the algae issues and parameters under control first. A thorough clean of everything will go some way to making me feel like I've not just given up, so this morning I made a good start, sorting the following:

a. Detachable surface skimmer
b. Media rack - yep
c. Circulation pump and tubing - yep (amazed at how much build up there was inside the tubing)
d. Pump outlet nozzle - currently soaking in RODI and vinegar
e. Fixed plastic surround of surface skimmer
f. Surface water cooling fan unit - yep (definitely need to replace these knackered old fans)
g. Egg crate cage that holds skimmer
h. Rear sump of any detritus

As for the cabinet and hood (inside and out), the back of the tank has had a wipe down, the lighting cover was removed and cleaned with the inside vacuumed of all dust. All hood trim was removed and cleaned, as was the inside and all brackets etc.

The Tunze ATO optical eye and float were also cleaned whilst I had the media rack out. Media was refreshed, opting this time for Red Sea Reef Spec Carbon instead of CPE. Purigen wasn't anywhere near exhausted yet so that was rinsed and replaced along with new filter floss.

Next step will be to remove the egg crate cage and skimmer and clean these, prior to syphoning out the detritus from the rear sump during water change. I'll also clean the coraline from the surface skimmer and attempt to clean it from its fixed surround too. This will just leave the bottom of the cabinet, both inside and out. Also need to glue back one of the side panels and a strip of the back too.

Looking forward to the challenge of balancing everything inside the tank, especially now that everything else has been maintained. First step here will be to find a red turf algae free bit of live rock that I can break up to mount the Trumpet (which seems to be loving the conditions as it's looking like it's ready to split in a few places) and Duncan corals onto, as they keep getting knocked over by the Tuxedo and snails.

Cleaning the substrate is a big challenge, particularly under the live rock. Might need to fashion something to help, or at best blow it out with a powerhead.
 

melvis

Well-Known Member
Yep, sounds like it Pat. Feels good doesn't it?

It's going well right now. New batch of RODI (000 tds) being made up as we speak and I'll do some more regular changes over the next two weeks, possibly 2-3 a week. The cleaned returned nozzle looks like new.

Did notice that with the return pump switched off overnight (whilst the nozzle soaked) and the skimmer off too, my temp dropped considerably when I woke this morning. Last night it was running at 24.5c, so about 1.5c approx lower than normal, this morning it was 23.1c. Makes me wonder how effective the RSM heater is as this is set at 26c - or so I thought. An eye needs keeping on that for sure.
 

melvis

Well-Known Member
I've found the problem - I think. :fingerscrossed:

The RODI water I've just made is coming out of the machine as 000 tds and I'm getting the same when it's stored in it's container. The problem comes from where I mix the saltwater.

@Pat24601 - you were right with your dumb question lol! I've never (probably naively) tested the tds content when it's transferred to here (just the parameters of the mixed saltwater). On doing so just now, it's reading 149ppm, so I'm filling the tank with just over a third of the tds content I'm getting from the tap.

Looks like my container is contaminated but could that really cause such a spike?

Regardless, I'll be ordering all new containers for waste, RODI and mixing my saltwater.

@DaveK - you were also right and the prompt to check things has enabled me to find the likely cause before my drastic and long term action commenced and ultimately failed.

Thanks
 
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