Starting a new tank

clnavarro956

New Member
Hello everyone! I am very excited to be getting into a reef forum. My husband and I started our SW hobby with a JBJ 28g Nano cube. I had it throughout college and had issues with it every time I set it up. We recently set it up again and have had a lot of issues with it again. It’s just so hard to regulate! We have recently realized that less than 30g is not the best for beginners for this reason.

We want to start fresh! So we are thinking of getting a new tank (50-75g). We have looked at the JBJ 65g rimless (https://tinyurl.com/ybu4sesx) and the Red Sea Max-E 69g (https://tinyurl.com/yborbj7g).

Does anyone have any thoughts as to what would be best for beginners? These are two that have caught our eyes but we are open to others as well!
 

nanoreefing4fun

Well-Known Member
RS STAFF
:rbwwelc:to RS ! Lots have great success with RSM tanks, I would say their AIO (all in one) tanks are great for beginners.
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
... I had it throughout college and had issues with it every time I set it up. We recently set it up again and have had a lot of issues with it again. ...

Does anyone have any thoughts as to what would be best for beginners? ...

Welcome to the group.

You see how your have had issues every time you tried to set up a system. The current system you have, for what it is, really isn't that bad. In fact, many have set up tanks much smaller. Now I'm not trying to beat up on you, but this tends to tell me that you are making major errors when your set up the system and/or when you try to run the system.

Getting another, larger, tank isn't going to solve anything. Your going to need to become a lot more knowledgeable about SW systems. That way you have a fighting chance of getting things right. I have posted this before, but it's worth repeating. It is the best advice I can give you when your starting out.

DaveK's Standard Lecture #1 – Advice for people new to the hobby

The very first thing you want to do, before you spend any money on equipment or livestock, is get yourself a few good books on state of the art reef systems. Then read and study them, so you have some idea about what your are doing.

Here are two to start with -

The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Robert Fenner
The New Marine Aquarium by Michael Paleta <---This book has an especially good section on fish suited to someone starting off in the hobby.

A note on the books. You can often find used copies at much lower prices at places like Amazon. In most cases these are going to be as good as new copies, especially when your first learning.

This is information that you can not easily obtain from the net. While it's out there, it's all over the place, and there is a massive volume of information. There is also a lot of bad information out there.

Once you get that done, plan or rethink your system. What do you want to keep? Do you have the necessary equipment? Do you have the knowledge to keep the livestock you want? Do you have the time to dedicate to keeping a system and it's livestock?

Many salt water fish, corals and inverts often have very specific requirements. Some are extremely difficult to keep alive, even if you do everything right. Before you get anything, research it, and be sure it will work out in your system.

Lastly, you will find that most LFS people are clueless when it comes to SW systems. Verify their advice, until they prove otherwise.

End of standard Lecture.

I would recommend that you first try again with the system you have, before you spend money on another one. Keep the stocking, especially fish, very light.

If you still want to upgrade, I'd go with the Red Sea tank. The JBJ system your looking at, as supplied by a major vendor, seems to load you up with way too much 3rd rate junk,

I also wouldn't recommend the fish "aquatic life pack" because it contains way too many fish for a 65 fal tank. The list is 20 fish, and you should only be putting about 10 to 12 small fish in that size tank. In addition the mix of fish selected is going to cause problems, as some are not very compatible.
 

Pat24601

Well-Known Member
I’m a bit in the DaveK camp. There is nothing wrong with upgrading and I’m a big Red Sea fan and the tank I have (and love) is an earlier version of the one you are thinking of, but what problems are you running into?

It’s true that a bigger tank is easier in maintain, but it’s still not immune to algae, aiptasia, marine ich, and a horde of other saltwater problems.

My real secret to many saltwater problems is frequent water changes. That fixes a lot (but not all) ills.

My bottom line is, yes an upgrade sounds great, but what problems are you having that we could help make sure you don’t just run into them again with a bigger tank?
 

clnavarro956

New Member
Hi all,

Thanks for the responses. The issues that we are having really is more of just frustration. If one level spikes, we try to fix it using some sort of chemical (recommended by LFS) that ends up making something else spike. Really our issue is that the tank is so sensitive. We started it off with all of these additives and really just want to start over. We figured, hey if we are starting from scratch and are sick of how dang sensitive this system is, why not upgrade?

Just an overview, though:

First time setting up years ago I had issues because my LFS set me up with a 10g freshwater tank. Once I set up the nano cube, things were great! Only issue was that the tank was a bit warm but I couldn't afford a chiller. Unfortunately, though, I ended up moving and had to take it down.

Second time, tank was set up in a very well-lit room. Algae blooms were hard to control. Again, moved. (I do not foresee another move!!!)

This time around, things are okay but like I said it is just so sensitive.

I do love my nano cube and agree that it is a great system. We also have definitely embarked on our literature journey as well!
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
Exactly which levels are you talking about? Please post exact readings for everything you tested. Statements like "all levels are fine" don't tell us anything. What seems to be ok to you might indicate a major issue to someone else. Even in a small tank, most levels should remain fairly constant as long as you do normal partial water changes.

What additives or chemicals have you been using? LFSs are notorious for selling people incorrect products to make a quick sale.

On levels. Generally you never want to chase numbers. If the livestock is doing well, leave things alone.

On additives. Generally you want to avoid these as much as possible, but you may need them to control calcium and alkalinity levels and certain other items. However, it's very easy to overdo things here and go from having a minor issue to having a major problem.

We may need to talk about you entire setup to determine why your tank is so sensitive.
How much live rock do you have in the tank?
What fish do you have in the tank?
What other livestock do you have in the tank?
 

clnavarro956

New Member
Exactly which levels are you talking about? Please post exact readings for everything you tested. Statements like "all levels are fine" don't tell us anything. What seems to be ok to you might indicate a major issue to someone else. Even in a small tank, most levels should remain fairly constant as long as you do normal partial water changes.

What additives or chemicals have you been using? LFSs are notorious for selling people incorrect products to make a quick sale.

On levels. Generally you never want to chase numbers. If the livestock is doing well, leave things alone.

On additives. Generally you want to avoid these as much as possible, but you may need them to control calcium and alkalinity levels and certain other items. However, it's very easy to overdo things here and go from having a minor issue to having a major problem.

We may need to talk about you entire setup to determine why your tank is so sensitive.
How much live rock do you have in the tank?
What fish do you have in the tank?
What other livestock do you have in the tank?



Let me preface by saying lesson learned! In the past I never used any additives or anything. This time, we started the tank up and wanted to speed up the process using the Red Sea reef mature kit (LFS recommended of course ugh). We didn’t have the proper test kit to compliment it so... (I’m VERY embarrassed to admit) we used some test strips to test Alkalinkty while we waited for our new kit to come in the mail. During that time, we WAY overdosed to bring up Alkalinity. Once we did a more accurate test, we realized what we had done. LFS recommended bringing calcium up and doing 50% changes weekly. Well alkalinity is still high and now calcium is too. Like I said, I have never used chemicals in the past and most certainly regret it. This is why we are wanting to start over with a new natural-based aquarium. We want to do it the right way from the start. Here are our current parameters.... brace yourself

Magnesium 1800ppm
Alkalinity 5.5Meq/L or 15.4dKH
Phosphate 0.12ppm
Calcium 575ppm
Nitrate 2.0ppm
Temperature 25*C
Specific gravity 1.025

Size 28g
I think we have about 40lbs of rock
It’s been running for about 6 mo at least

Livestock:
Fish:
Orange & White Ocellaris Clownfish
Court Jester Goby
Black & White Ocellaris Clownfish
Sailfin/Algae Blenny
Clown Goby, Green
Neon Dottyback

Invertebrates:
a handful of hermit crabs and snails. Sorry don’t know their specific species

I know we messed up and we are really trying hard to fix it. We aren’t giving up on it, we are going to keep doing water changes and caring for it until we get the new one. No more chemicals! Then we will move our little guys over into a new happier home when it is appropriate.

By the way, looks like JBJ is what we will be going with. Price is best. We didn’t get that big pack because We already had most of the supplies or we just didn’t like what was offered.
 

DaveK

Well-Known Member
Your parameters for Magnesium, Alkalinity, and Calcium are way too high. This seems to indicate that you have been really over dosing the additives for these. See this link (offsite) to recommended parameters - https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/o...-reef-aquarium-by-randy-holmes-farley.173563/ Note, this article is by Randy Holmes-Farley, who is an expert in these areas, but his articles are often long and complex. While it never hurts to read everything, in this case I'm more or less just pointing out the charts.

The rest of your parameters look OK. You should be able to correct this by making partial water changes until they come down. Do about 20% water changes once a week, and after a couple of months your parameters should be correct. Don't rush this.

Your tank may be overcrowded. Typically you want a max stocking limit of 1 inch of fish per 5 gal of water. By the time you add live rock, sand and so on to a tank you greatly reduce the actual water volume of the tank. It's likely that your 29 gal tank is holding only about 22 gal of water or so. You also need to allow room for the fish to grow.

If all your fish are about 2 inches long, except the clown gobi at about 1 inch, you have about 11 inches in your tank, but your tank has a maximum load of about 5 to 6 inches, at most.

Now some people do push the recommended stocking limit, and if your really know what your doing it can be possible, but if the least little thing goes wrong, the system can easily crash.

Last thought, if your looking at a larger tank, and you have this fish load, you may want to go even larger, so you can add a few more fish.
 
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