SPS Issues

[Bearjohnson]

Lately I've been having some of my SPS corals growing super fantastic only to have them begin to turn white from the base and slowly die from the bottom up.

Basically I have 2 small colonies that started out as 1" frags which I popped off of the plug and glued to a rock. They encrusted nicely and grew to about the size of a small orange. I've had smaller SPS pieces do the same thing but it's not all happening at once. With the smaller pieces I was able to frag the good and they are doing just great. Today I fragged what I could from one of the small colonies in hopes they will survive. Generally, I'm having great success with the ones I frag but I'm frustrated as heck because I can't figure out why they frag awesomely, but the larger colonies sometimes die off. I've had one small frag begin to recede then reverse course over a 3 month period and heal itself almost down to the rock.

Parameters:

Calcium - generally 450-500
Alkalinity - 9-10
Magnesium - 1400-1450

The nasties are undetectable an PH is fine 8-8.3 depending on the time of day

Anyone?

 

[Mike Johnson]

You're describing the exact same thing that I went through about a year ago. So, I've had plenty of time to reflect. Had a couple of corals softball size just up and white out in a very short time. I saved a small tip off one (a ORA birdnest) and it's had great progress. Then due to a heater and controller malfunction (at the same time?) I've lost it. The temp was 84.6 (checked by four different thermometers 'cuz I couldn't believe it. (Wife told me something's wrong with the corals, should have listened, but that's another story.)

I could tell you the standard answers and you can delve off into studying about RTN and STN for a week. You'll discover (they) don't know the answers. Could be a bacteria, could be the zooxanthellae decided to ditch, could even be AEFW that have not been detected. They're tiny little turds that eat the coral from the base up and the coral dies quickly once they eat up the stalk.

In my experience with RTN it's a big change in temp, salinity, alk, mag, cal, one of them. For a delicate SPS a big change is 2.5 - 3 degrees. Alk drops below 7 for a day. Mag drops down to 1150, ph drops from 8.2 to 7.8 overnight. See my drift here. It really doesn't take much and sometimes is not noticeable.

A risky time of year for an SPS is spring when you haven't turned your air on yet and the house gets hot. Or the fall when you haven't turned the heat on yet. Getting colder isn't as bad on Sps, but a couple degree increase in an hour and they might just bail out.

Okay, take this with a grain of salt. But I have some corals that are years old that I guess aren't as touchy. Wouldn't a virus or a bacteria kill them all?

 

[Snelly40]

ha i was about to ask this.. my pocillapora is growing like a champ but i noticed last night that some of the bottom is bleaching out...

 

[Mike Johnson]

Here's another theory that I have and it might just be why I lost my softball size corals.

I'm just going to quote a book, a lot of people still don't believe this, but many are seeing the light. Here's a quote from Tony Vargas', "The Coral Reef Aquarium":

"High phosphate levels are poisonous to most corals. Levels above 0.2 ppm can strongly inhibit calcification, because phosphate acts as a "crystal poison", preventing the formation of calcium carbonate crystals at the site of calcification. At approximately .015 ppm the growth of problem algae is limited, so many aquarists try to maintain such low levels to control algae. However, the presence of some phosphate is very important to the well-being of photosynthetic corals. Many of the phosphate-removal products available today are so efficient that they may strip all of the phosphate out of the water. Dangerously low levels of phosphate can promote coral bleaching. Bleaching occurs when zooxanthellae that reside in the gastrodermis or corals die, leave, or are ejected."

The part about zooxanthellate being ejected at 0 phosphate is what I'm trying to convey.

My two big corals died not long after I hooked up a BRS GFO reactor. I unhooked it for about six months after that. I've got it running now, but it has a small amount in it.

I was dosing with kalk and vinegar, but I had cyano show up and coralline algae growth stopped.

I'm convinced that the best way to export nutrients is by growing algae.

I also been reading how some "experts" are only running their skimmers half a day so they don't strip the water. I'm not there yet, but I am dry skimming.

 

[Bearjohnson]

Well one of the only REAL change that I can possibly attribute being an issue is the higher phosphate due to me shutting down the scrubber for 3 weeks. However, this began to show up much much earlier than that.

My skimmer is way undersized for my setup.

I think there can be something to be said about the skimmer stripping the tank although some of the most amazing reef tanks have some of the most monstrous skimmers on them.

 

[Oxylebius]

Interesting theories..... a quick comment on the algae use in tanks though, there are some algae that are known to have chemical defenses that affect sps and some books have mentioned that the chemicals released by algae, through competition for space, are capable of causing damage to corals, resulting in bleaching or tissue loss and a white appearance. Those known algae are Caulerpa, Dictyota, Laurencia, and Halimeda. Thoughts here? I know, half of reefers (or more ?) have sumps w/algae......the anecdotal from this is that it is not an issue. And, if you are running carbon then those chemicals should be taken up by the carbon and then become a non-issue.

Bear, I also had some issues with this in the past - early on I tried keeping several Seriatopora sps (ORA Bird of Paradise, ORA Green Birds Nest, and Pink Lace Birds Nest), slowly each bleached from the bottom up. I think I had them for about 6 months in my tank, the Bird of Paradise doubled in size and was the last to succumb to the bleaching. The first to not make it was the Green Birds nest. I also had in the tank several Monties and one Stylo, none of these were affected. I've had the Stylo going on 2 years this March and it has, off and on, bleached from the bottom, but never fully. In this case I think that b/c it is such a chunky coral that it is due to lack of light penetration through its own branches. Anyway, I haven't tried Seriatopora again.

 

[forestal]

Agree with the coral self shading and perhaps some of the other corals using allelopathic chemicals to hit the when they are vulnerable
I prefer to under skim and use water changes to keep phosphate down and only run carbon to prevent (hopefully) allelopathy.
Another thought is feeding the corals- May grow quick initially but if not getting all the nutrients they may then waste
- early am 2cents