OK Two new 75 Starfire tanks on the way and lots of possibilities and money.
- Thread starter Basile
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Basile
Well-Known Member
LOLMy sponges may be sending out for Pizza because so far my sponges are growing a little too much and my skimmer has been running since 1973 or so.
Basile
Well-Known Member
My experiences with the infamous sea urchins.
For starters they're wonderful algae eaters, they can't get enough of it.
So the first tip i can give if you don't have a a tank 65 G and more they'll starve unless you fed them.
They forage for food that means they don't see where they are or spot a great morsel 2 inch from them.
If they're hungry they move everything in the tank; you'd move the fridge too to look behind if you where starving too.
That's another sign of starvation.Like all animals the least effort is the best to survive, but if the spend energy moving thing around;they're starving.
I had a Black Hatpin Urchin (Echinothrix diadema )
Great to have but its like a bear it eats and eats and eats. You HAVE to feed it or it starts to loose its spines which is a bad sign. It looses occasionally some due to friction with the rocks and its environment but when loosing them daily, no.
This is your best bet;
Its his natural food. And you'll be surprise how many of your Clean up crew will also benefit. (ITS ABSOLUTELY FALSE TO SAY; IF YOU FEED YOUR BOTTOM DWELLERS THEY'LL STOP CLEANING THE TANK)
I fed mine and in return they started to reproduce and i had hundreds of snails and critters in the sand cleaning. I didn't buy any Clean up crew critters for 2 years after my initial C.U.C.(Clean Up Crew).
I had people asking me if salted kelp is good for them. First the kelp is in its own salt that's the white powder that comes with it. In the bag the dried kelp produce salt when its dried. So no worries.
The kelp leaf can last a week at first, because its big thick and it takes time for your CUC to eat it, and no its doesn't change your nitrate and so on. Later in the months to come my CUC would eat it up in 2 days tops. That's a good sign, you have a healthy and populated sand with critters.
this is another good food
if i take so much time talking about the CUC its because its a subject that is rarely taken seriously. The mentality is ;Oh i'll buy more next month. Its a forgotten part of the hobby, or more accurately neglected and all for the wrong reasons. Because its relatively cheap to replace......
A live sand is very important part of the filtration system otherwise why have sand at all if you're not to populate it......
A live sand full of life and filtering worms:
These conch are mating and i got plenty of little replacements. The conch are the best after the urchins for algae cleaning. One per 50 G is enough other wise it can starve.....kelp leafs again can save them. By the way its the only one i know who eats cyano bacteria
Other snails matting
The problem with the long spine urchins is that if you have a made up wall with foam( greatstuff)
The urchins will eat it loose its spines and die, they get slowly poisoned by it .
The tuxedo urchin on the other hand is easier to content, Its more flexible it'll need some TLC with kelp leaves for supplement.( but being smaller with a smaller mouth, the kelp needs to soften so after the leaf has been in the water all night put you urchin directly on it. You wont see patches of eaten kelp, because kelp is very thick and the urchins eats by layers. But it will eat.
For starters they're wonderful algae eaters, they can't get enough of it.
So the first tip i can give if you don't have a a tank 65 G and more they'll starve unless you fed them.
They forage for food that means they don't see where they are or spot a great morsel 2 inch from them.
If they're hungry they move everything in the tank; you'd move the fridge too to look behind if you where starving too.
That's another sign of starvation.Like all animals the least effort is the best to survive, but if the spend energy moving thing around;they're starving.
I had a Black Hatpin Urchin (Echinothrix diadema )
Great to have but its like a bear it eats and eats and eats. You HAVE to feed it or it starts to loose its spines which is a bad sign. It looses occasionally some due to friction with the rocks and its environment but when loosing them daily, no.
This is your best bet;
Its his natural food. And you'll be surprise how many of your Clean up crew will also benefit. (ITS ABSOLUTELY FALSE TO SAY; IF YOU FEED YOUR BOTTOM DWELLERS THEY'LL STOP CLEANING THE TANK)
I fed mine and in return they started to reproduce and i had hundreds of snails and critters in the sand cleaning. I didn't buy any Clean up crew critters for 2 years after my initial C.U.C.(Clean Up Crew).
I had people asking me if salted kelp is good for them. First the kelp is in its own salt that's the white powder that comes with it. In the bag the dried kelp produce salt when its dried. So no worries.
The kelp leaf can last a week at first, because its big thick and it takes time for your CUC to eat it, and no its doesn't change your nitrate and so on. Later in the months to come my CUC would eat it up in 2 days tops. That's a good sign, you have a healthy and populated sand with critters.
this is another good food
if i take so much time talking about the CUC its because its a subject that is rarely taken seriously. The mentality is ;Oh i'll buy more next month. Its a forgotten part of the hobby, or more accurately neglected and all for the wrong reasons. Because its relatively cheap to replace......
A live sand is very important part of the filtration system otherwise why have sand at all if you're not to populate it......
A live sand full of life and filtering worms:
These conch are mating and i got plenty of little replacements. The conch are the best after the urchins for algae cleaning. One per 50 G is enough other wise it can starve.....kelp leafs again can save them. By the way its the only one i know who eats cyano bacteria
Other snails matting
The problem with the long spine urchins is that if you have a made up wall with foam( greatstuff)
The urchins will eat it loose its spines and die, they get slowly poisoned by it .
The tuxedo urchin on the other hand is easier to content, Its more flexible it'll need some TLC with kelp leaves for supplement.( but being smaller with a smaller mouth, the kelp needs to soften so after the leaf has been in the water all night put you urchin directly on it. You wont see patches of eaten kelp, because kelp is very thick and the urchins eats by layers. But it will eat.
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Paul B
Well-Known Member
This guy has been in my reef for many years. I don't even know how long because I have no recollection of buying him. I don't feed him but you are correct, they are large eaters. There is really no algae in my tank but I keep the sides and back natural and there is a 1/4" thick layer of "mulm" back there that keeps him and a lot of other creatures alive and I assume, happy. If it were not for that layer, I am sure he would starve.
You can see that "mulm" here where my clingfish hunts.
You can see that "mulm" here where my clingfish hunts.
Basile
Well-Known Member
There you have it, i didn't have that in my tank so i had to feed him kelp. i wish i had that mulm . You're giving me an idea for next time i won't clean one of my side panel at all. But it takes a long time to accumulate. Of course if in my fuge these guys would be so happy lolThis guy has been in my reef for many years. I don't even know how long because I have no recollection of buying him. I don't feed him but you are correct, they are large eaters. There is really no algae in my tank but I keep the sides and back natural and there is a 1/4" thick layer of "mulm" back there that keeps him and a lot of other creatures alive and I assume, happy. If it were not for that layer, I am sure he would starve.
You can see that "mulm" here where my clingfish hunts.
Basile
Well-Known Member
Basile
Well-Known Member
To continue on the CUC; Clean Up Crew, the most efficient detritus not algae detritus eater are the Babylonia Snail. Big, very hardy and fun to watch as they're racing toward that piece of food that just fell on the bottom.
They also multiply if you feed enough, i had tons hundreds small babies that roamed the sand, so several generations to replace my original ones, but they're long life ones, 2 years + for snails . You don't need that much because they're pigs and eat a lot. more food means they'll reproduce and that's what you want, instead of buying every 3-6 months for new ones.
They're similar to the nassarius
Who are not quite as big and doesn't have those blotchy spots. Its actually one of their many names Blotch snails=Babylone snails
One of the detritus least useful is the Brittle star or Serpent Seastar
See that nice big hole, when i say least useful it means that it will eat and then digest for days if not a week before eating again, I was always intrigue by the sheer numbers we see them in the ocean and living together, in seem relative harmony. Then researching i found the why so many can coexist so harmoniously together. eating and having days to digest, they're aren't really in competition.
I also means you can have several ones in your tank and they'll be fine, BUT; as efficiency goes to help you clean the tank bottom; better leave it to the snails like i said the most efficient at it, but still interesting to have as diversity. I had 7 in my 150 G tank. But again feeding them helps and they'll reproduce as well.
Another usefull guy is the cuke, sea cucumber.
Mine was big and a problem. I found out that before they split, which its one way they multiply; they need to beef up their bodies to survive while a new mouth or anal track is being formed after the split. They need it because that process can take several weeks.
And in my case the huge cuke was a problem because it took him a year just to beef up and the split in 3, so that meant the mid section had a mouth and the anal track to replace.One of the segment died with no ill affect on my tank by the way; A huge fear by many who don't risk this wonderful cleaning machine.The other 2 survived very well.
It processes sand like the earth worms, it transforms poop and what ever else it eats in the sand into its primary elements and helps redirect resources in your tank. It cleans your sand like no other.
The risk are minimal if you have a big enough tank because the cuke need sand to clean and enough to survive. Forget the 50G tank for a cuke, depending on the size or both cukes and tank you need a heavy bioload to keep this one alive and to split even.
They also multiply if you feed enough, i had tons hundreds small babies that roamed the sand, so several generations to replace my original ones, but they're long life ones, 2 years + for snails . You don't need that much because they're pigs and eat a lot. more food means they'll reproduce and that's what you want, instead of buying every 3-6 months for new ones.
They're similar to the nassarius
Who are not quite as big and doesn't have those blotchy spots. Its actually one of their many names Blotch snails=Babylone snails
One of the detritus least useful is the Brittle star or Serpent Seastar
See that nice big hole, when i say least useful it means that it will eat and then digest for days if not a week before eating again, I was always intrigue by the sheer numbers we see them in the ocean and living together, in seem relative harmony. Then researching i found the why so many can coexist so harmoniously together. eating and having days to digest, they're aren't really in competition.
I also means you can have several ones in your tank and they'll be fine, BUT; as efficiency goes to help you clean the tank bottom; better leave it to the snails like i said the most efficient at it, but still interesting to have as diversity. I had 7 in my 150 G tank. But again feeding them helps and they'll reproduce as well.
Another usefull guy is the cuke, sea cucumber.
Mine was big and a problem. I found out that before they split, which its one way they multiply; they need to beef up their bodies to survive while a new mouth or anal track is being formed after the split. They need it because that process can take several weeks.
And in my case the huge cuke was a problem because it took him a year just to beef up and the split in 3, so that meant the mid section had a mouth and the anal track to replace.One of the segment died with no ill affect on my tank by the way; A huge fear by many who don't risk this wonderful cleaning machine.The other 2 survived very well.
It processes sand like the earth worms, it transforms poop and what ever else it eats in the sand into its primary elements and helps redirect resources in your tank. It cleans your sand like no other.
The risk are minimal if you have a big enough tank because the cuke need sand to clean and enough to survive. Forget the 50G tank for a cuke, depending on the size or both cukes and tank you need a heavy bioload to keep this one alive and to split even.
Basile
Well-Known Member
One of my least successful endeavor was starfishes. Blue, red, orange green didn't matter which species , i never could keep them more than a month. I have no idea why either parameters where normal, most of them got diseases; they melted , shred, loose limbs, so in that instance i'm no reference for the husbandry of star fish.
This basket seastar was doomed from the start, i maybe no reference for any starfish however, its clearly an impossible task to keep one alive for very long, from what i've red so far.
The same goes for my late feather star which we should all refrain from buying to stop the onslaught of these wonderful but only wild animals. My righteous teaching for the day, lol. But seriously they have no life in our tanks.
Same happened to this poor blue star, very fragile and died of infection
This seemingly perfect star is actually sick you can see the little bubble or what appear as bubble on it , but i was told that this is a common disease
Basile
Well-Known Member
One strategy that was very successful was the absence of any hermits in my tanks.
I'd been watching those in my previous tanks and found them more trouble than most cuc. They're opportunistic and aggressive nature made them irrelevant to a tank.
Most will eat your other clean up crews, snails and what not and then each other which makes them a costly addition to a tank. In the 2 1/2 year i've operated my tank i've never had to add any cuc of any kind since all where different species of snails, urchins, cukes, and some emerald crabs doing a better job.
Yes the emerald crabs never went after my other cuc in the tank. in fact they always seem to die before any other cuc's and its the only ones i had to replace.
So my best cuc is made almost exclusively of different snails and a few urchins and a cuke.
I'd been watching those in my previous tanks and found them more trouble than most cuc. They're opportunistic and aggressive nature made them irrelevant to a tank.
Most will eat your other clean up crews, snails and what not and then each other which makes them a costly addition to a tank. In the 2 1/2 year i've operated my tank i've never had to add any cuc of any kind since all where different species of snails, urchins, cukes, and some emerald crabs doing a better job.
Yes the emerald crabs never went after my other cuc in the tank. in fact they always seem to die before any other cuc's and its the only ones i had to replace.
So my best cuc is made almost exclusively of different snails and a few urchins and a cuke.
Basile
Well-Known Member
I had Nassarius, Babylonians, trochus, mexican turbo, and conch for snails.
Basile
Well-Known Member
My best additions to my system hands down was my "home made" wave box and the external coast to coast.
In the trade, wave box are $500+ http://www.reefsupplies.ca/online-store/TUNZE-Comline-Wavebox-6208.html as an example.
So decided that since my tank was being custom made i'd have a custom made wave box to avoid the overpriced thing. Turns out the custom glass box cost $25 to make and add on the side; outside the tank so not to loose any footprint.
You can see the little box outside the tank.
I just added a pump with control that cost me $295. a saving of about $300.
The thing works like a charm.
The coast to coast was also a master stroke. It provided a massive help to my skimmer who was already a good bet.Both the reef tank and refugium had one installed.
Also made of glass i insisted to be external to again not claim any footprint in the tank and didn't interfered with the wave generating box.
I'm stating that a custom made tank is far more reliable than the of the shelf. Two of my friends had Marineland tanks that leaked twice. The seals they have are very thin and substandard it would seem.
In the trade, wave box are $500+ http://www.reefsupplies.ca/online-store/TUNZE-Comline-Wavebox-6208.html as an example.
So decided that since my tank was being custom made i'd have a custom made wave box to avoid the overpriced thing. Turns out the custom glass box cost $25 to make and add on the side; outside the tank so not to loose any footprint.
You can see the little box outside the tank.
I just added a pump with control that cost me $295. a saving of about $300.
The thing works like a charm.
The coast to coast was also a master stroke. It provided a massive help to my skimmer who was already a good bet.Both the reef tank and refugium had one installed.
Also made of glass i insisted to be external to again not claim any footprint in the tank and didn't interfered with the wave generating box.
I'm stating that a custom made tank is far more reliable than the of the shelf. Two of my friends had Marineland tanks that leaked twice. The seals they have are very thin and substandard it would seem.
Basile
Well-Known Member
Ok guys i need a few advice about how to restart my system.
First; the background of my tank, wasn't remove at all when i shut it down. I cleaned it as best as i could, but as you can see its a pretty complex of nooks and crannies in there, its ceramic and its stuck to the back; it can't be removed for further cleaning.(this is the wall before it was used; and after i've cleaned it the best i could)
Which brings me to ask; what would you think would be the best way to clean that wall before i commit to restarting the tank.
Some suggested i just fill it with Ro water and let a couple of weeks go by to get the loose particles off before i fill it with salt water. But my skimmer would be ineffective to remove particles stuck to the wall.
Since i can operate the 2 tanks independently even if they share the same sump. This the refugium; awful isn't .
I didn't clean it yet, didn't have the heart for it. Now a lot of the dead algae remains but dried out. What would you suggest. For the sand i'll replace it with new one.
All suggestion are appreciated, don't yell at me for the sorry state of the fuge i know.....lol.
First; the background of my tank, wasn't remove at all when i shut it down. I cleaned it as best as i could, but as you can see its a pretty complex of nooks and crannies in there, its ceramic and its stuck to the back; it can't be removed for further cleaning.(this is the wall before it was used; and after i've cleaned it the best i could)
Which brings me to ask; what would you think would be the best way to clean that wall before i commit to restarting the tank.
Some suggested i just fill it with Ro water and let a couple of weeks go by to get the loose particles off before i fill it with salt water. But my skimmer would be ineffective to remove particles stuck to the wall.
Since i can operate the 2 tanks independently even if they share the same sump. This the refugium; awful isn't .
I didn't clean it yet, didn't have the heart for it. Now a lot of the dead algae remains but dried out. What would you suggest. For the sand i'll replace it with new one.
All suggestion are appreciated, don't yell at me for the sorry state of the fuge i know.....lol.
StirCrayzy
Well-Known Member
Good to see you back in the game... again !
Basile
Well-Known Member
Thanks man its been a real battle; 4 years almost.
Oxylebius
Well-Known Member
I find that you have to feed them, just like you have to feed your fish. Oh, they will scavenge and eat anything they come across, but if you don't feed them they will also go after your snails and other critters that you have pointed out.
Coral crabs are the exception.
Basile
Well-Known Member
Since i feed my CUC all the time maybe i would be ok with hermits then.
yungreefer2410
Well-Known Member
Any progress on starting it back up? Just read thru your whole thread, well skimmed it haha. You have inspired me to connect a nice fuge to my future system one of these days. I have flirted with the thought of a display refugium in the past
Basile
Well-Known Member
Hi yes everything is running, i'm a bit all over the place this time and didn't make any posting or videos lately. Sorry about that. i also don't have the same "Budget" i use to have so things are moving much slower lol.
I now have 7 dispar anthias, a Solon fairy wrasse , and bullet gobie and the cleaning crew , cleaner shrimps, and an urchins. I've gone a bit less fancy this time. The stalactite is gone, i sold it. and made a new sculpture . I should really put some pic , thanks for the "wake up call " , lol. Hope your fuge gets done .We'll exchange pictures.